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 Replies: 318 / Views: 38,569 |
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Rest in Peace
Canada
1360 Posts |
I agree with you darryldarryl. That was my frustration with the 'flippers' in the first place. Getting in quick, selling out what otherwise might NOT have been a sell out, and falsely propping up their own 2ndary markets.
Respectfully...Larry.
Edited by Dcadon
03/04/2015 3:15 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
981 Posts |
HAHAHA this thread is hilarious
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts |
Do you remember, how fast has been sold-out the 2013 Grandmother mask? If I am not wrong - 1 or 2 days.
It issued together with Maple Canopy and Glass Butterfly.
People said, that the coin is ugly, but many wanted to do a quick buck on it. People knew about "Summer Moon Mask" that sells above issue, but all together forgot, what lead to it's "rarity".
Unfortunately to them, the real art has it's own "rules" and less predictable, than pop production items...
So I assume, with the 2013-2014 Masks sells below the issue, even collectors from the First nations, that do not have thousands to spend, can afford this piece of art.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
634 Posts |
I'll go one step further from where DarrylDarryl aptly pointed out...and say what many may be thinking...
Flipper's more than any factor, have messed up a lot of true collector's heads -
Their hoard approach...profit driven...artificially hiking demand...and in turn price, strictly for THEIR self-serving interests...has negatively impacted this sport.
Pocketchange50's self-analysis on apprehensiveness in the buying at issue of a desired coin is a direct result of flipper's coming in swiftly - grabbing all they can...and then dumping their hoards at reduced prices. These actions have caused the whole true collector coin community in a tailspin filled with guilt and regret for not holding out on a much desired coin...
The singing moon masks...are the break away from that approach...
The flippers are definitely sitting on the sidelines...pocket bruised - and its reflective in some of their very quick dismissive (and angry sounding) opinions of this superb mask set.
Great design, low mintage...(again, only Three Thousand), unique original set...high relief...two of three coins hand crafted...wooden box...so much for so little...perfect for the native art loving coin collector...boo hoo for the flippers...
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2426 Posts |
Amen Electrum!
Couldn't say it any better myself.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
2019 Posts |
I dont agree that resellers are the problem , they actually have catapulted NCLT into a wider audience , be it profit driven but no one can deny that more people have become interested in modern NCLT quite possibly "because" of flippers/resellers , Most of the problem appears to be "over production" of NCLTs as most of us are well aware of the amount of "product" now available, Resellers don't produce the coins. OMG did I just defend Resellers... I believe I did.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2984 Posts |
Collect what you like is the best motto.
I like the gold plated nickel set so I subscribed to it but I know I well never get back what I paid for it. I am fine with that. I've been collecting things for decades; stamps, trading cards, autographs. I will never get back what I paid for those things.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6768 Posts |
Well said, Electrum. Quote:
Resellers don't produce the coins.
OMG did I just defend Resellers... I believe I did. Resellers aren't the same as flippers. Dealers are re-sellers, instead of only RCM and CP - the coins also distributed by resellers, and they introduce the items to the wider audience. Flippers, they also re-sell, but their sales have speculative character and tactics: buy as many as possible, drying up the supply, and then sell for your price, using the fact that you are major source. Both work hard, but reseller's work under some rules and regulations. So usually about resellers people will say, that they "work" and about flipper will be said "produce nothing". Best examples, were the RCM eliminated flippers from the distribution chain: Venetian Glass series: "Buterfly" - with the mintage of 10.000 many went to dealers and RCM put limit of 1. Yes, people still earned something from the sale, but less. Do you remember young boy, that just tried to subsidy his purchase by quick resale? He managed to sell the Butterfly for near $300, but then the buyer cancelled the purchase, since the coins became available for issue. "Frog" - mintage raised, limitation and cancellation of MC orders. And Masks set... beautiful coins, only 3000 mintage, but not widely popular theme, plus issue price not low at all - this make it risky purchase for flippers. Edited by Silveroid
03/04/2015 5:37 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2019 Posts |
Quote:
Resellers aren't the same as flippers. Ok so I minced words. As far as the "resellers"/"Dealers" personally I didn't even know most of them existed when I first started being interested in NCLTs , it was the listings on ebay that attracted me to NCLTs , then The RCM site, it took sometime for me to find the other "dealers" as I wasn't even looking, now I know different, but I bet many still don't go looking for coins at "dealer/resellers" , they only look on ebay at the "Flippers" listings and the RCM. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
981 Posts |
The only ones that ruined NCLT is RCM and others mints that pump out 300+ pieces of so called art every year. What about the dealers that jack up their price right away because they think a coin is going to be popular(Gatewest,Talisman and others) they are no different than individual sellers are we going do go through all the bashing again because some of you don't like the free market idea of supply/demand.Let the whining continue we have heard it all before here. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1751 Posts |
Like Elk said the mints are at least 50% responsible for the current dynamics. It really is a circular feedback loop. As other elements do also contribute to current markets. I do hope the set remains in stock for awhile, so I can get a better feel for price stability. I love the set and I have the previous two masks. I feel they are unique. I don't see any uglyness in last years coin. What price would you be comfortable paying for the set, is an interesting question? I would be comfortable at $300. Mainly because this is the average price currently on 1 Oz coins. These coins aren't quite an ounce either. It would be interesting to hear what others would be comfortable paying. It will be interesting to watch this set. However, this year I've set a maximum amount of $1,000 to spend, unless I sell some other coins. However, waiting for surgery and will be in a rehab hospital for a month, I don't see sales that likely. My issue is mobility related, and to pack and ship one needs to have decent mobility. The past two yrs I had a windfall with some tax return money. This is not true this year. I pretty much bought what caught my fancy. Then I started seeing more & more of my recent mint purchases take severe price drops by years end. I've always been a person who looks for value and looks for sales. Just because I'm a " Collector" shouldn't mean I'm ok with my purchase losing up to 30% value in it's first yr. This is a hobby and not a neccesary purchase after all. My goal is too get the most coins for my set budget, not to add to someone's bottom line. The RCM gives it's dealers varying discounts dependant on how much they purchase. They should give their MC buyers at least a 10% discount !! Back to my first pt, the world mints in 2013 started with monthly release and a large selection. This by default will eventually flooded the market, whether or not there's flippers. Reason collectors have a finite budget. It also makes the decision tougher as what to choose, since there's more product that appeals to taste. It's one reason I stay will RCM coins, I'm getting overwhelmed with choices. Once upon a time yearly selection was low. I see a number of factors creating the current situation. I'm trying to read posts from prior yrs to see what collectors were saying back them. I'm just trying to be more careful with my collecting , as it's a finite resource. Edited by pocket change 50
03/04/2015 8:21 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2984 Posts |
I went to the Mint Boutique in Vancouver to see in person what the coins look like. The set is ok I suppose, but I did not find them very attractive. But as they say, "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder".
The Boutique has only one set left, the one in the display case.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
634 Posts |
Not bashing the flipper...  just whipping him/her...and perhaps Silveroid makes a clear distinction between flippers and simple dealer- type resellers...who have a legitimate enterprise with overhead costs. And the last thing a dealer cares to do is alienate new or existing customers with artificially cranking up prices for effect. Coin shoppers will see through that quickly. Risky move for their long term business success. They do up the price of hot coins...but will usually offer up a few at issue in the early going...but often those coins become hot items because of flipper activity... My point about the flippers is simply identifying their actions as a key significant factor behind the ever-present anxiety for many genuine coin collectors of late...who seem to be lacking the joy of adding to their collections by purchasing a new release at issue...and then some months or even weeks later having that sinking feeling after a downward price adjustment... That's unfortunate...but I'm not calling out the violins...  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2426 Posts |
@ elkslayer123...the only whining seems to be coming from your direction. Quote:
HAHAHA this thread is hilarious Quote:
are we going do go through all the bashing again because some of you don't like the free market idea of supply/demand.Let the whining continue we have heard it all before here. We are just having a friendly discussion. This is what I said... Quote:
Personally...I think the 3000 haven't sold out because all the big shot flippers have been stuck with inventory over the last year or so and are now gun shy.
Two or three years ago the flippers would be having a feeding frenzy with this set.
I see this as a good thing. At least the true collector can purchase the coins at Mint issue price.
Cheers Edited by darryldarryl
03/04/2015 8:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
981 Posts |
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Replies: 318 / Views: 38,569 |
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Posted 03/04/2015 3:21 pm
