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 Replies: 29 / Views: 2,726 |
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Valued Member
China
79 Posts |
Edited by Alf_coin
10/31/2007 05:55 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
I don't like the appearance of it. Screams out fake for some reason.
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Valued Member
 China
79 Posts |
quote:
I don't like the appearance of it. Screams out fake for some reason.
But as you know, the coin has a very special rim it's hard to fake technically. and fake-making should not be economic |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2540 Posts |
I don't know the piece, but it doesn't look fake to me.
Good luck.
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Can you provide the size and weight of the coin. The inscription reads. Franciscus by the grace of God R.I.S.A. King of Germany, Jerusalem, Lorraine, and Bar, Grand Duke of Tuscany. This coin is a Francescone (10 Paoli) from Tuscany. weight should be 27.5000 grams, listed in Krause as C# 8. VG-$40.00, F-$80.00, VF-$100.
Edited by echizento
10/31/2007 12:38 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2703 Posts |
Congrats, echizento, I was running for my Krause and you beat me to it!
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Moderator
Australia
16829 Posts |
It took a while, but I found it: from the Italian state of Tuscany, a thaler-sized 10 paoli coin also called a "francescone", issued in the name of Duke Francis I (who happened to be married to Maria Theresa and therefore Holy Roman Emperor). A one-year-type, listed in Krause as KM/C# 8. A reasonably scarce piece. Here's a nice one on CoinArchives that sold for 1200 euros at an Italian auction in 2005. The composition should be .917 fine silver; your one looks a bit brassy (though that could just be your lighting). I'm not sure what the edge of these coins is supposed to look like. What does your one weigh? Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Moderator
United States
23731 Posts |
Thanks t360, I even beat Sap on this one. He usually has the jump on me.
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Moderator
Australia
16829 Posts |
 It wasn't my fault. I was stuck in Austria for ages. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2703 Posts |
It is always hard to be sure about authenticity without the coin in hand. My causes for concern are the blotchy toning which does remind me of recent fakes that appear to have been dipped in ink to simulate toning, the odd pattern of wear (significant and uneven wear on the wings before the center of shield?), low depth of strike, and the rather sharp looking rims that seem higher than the center of the coin.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
The only reason why I'm not liking the appearance of it is because there is a large influx of counterfeited Russian 1729 Peter III and 1749 Elizabeth II rubles on the market and the toning just looks all similar to the one shown. Counterfeiting such edge is nothing these days. Good grief, I even bought a counterfeited damaged die for under 30usd. You can only speculate how much counterfeits were stuck with that die.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseriesMy numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htmRegularly updated at least once a month. |
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Valued Member
United States
136 Posts |
Hi there, I am new and just looking at some threads; I love old stuff and that coin is pretty cool. I have a couple questions. Are coins REALLY forged like autographs are? I can see maybe a rare coin that's worth many thousands or something, but do people actually fake coins not so valuable? I guess I do have three old coins. One roman and one I posted above not sure what it is (think also roman ancient) and I do have a coin "reportedly" from a shipwreck called "Admiral Gardener". It's dated 1809. What's the oldest coin anyone ever had here? Just curious! I have a ton of questions (like what is CLAD and what's Cameo) but for now, that's all.
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Moderator
Australia
16829 Posts |
quote:
dahoov2 asked:
Are coins REALLY forged like autographs are? I can see maybe a rare coin that's worth many thousands or something, but do people actually fake coins not so valuable?
Absolutely. Just because it's a fairly common coin, doesn't mean nobody will fake it. The fakemasters over in China right now will copy anything, rare or not. So long as they can sell it for more than it cost them to make, they'll do it. Take this coin for example. It's not a rare type, only worth a bit over it's silver content - a few dollars. But the fake probably isn't actually made of silver, so the fakers make a little bit of money. It's also quite common for ancient coins to be copied, even fairly cheap, common ones. In places like Italy, Greece, Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt etc (lands where ancient civilizations used to be) it's now actually illegal to buy and sell genuine ancient coins. It is, however, quite legal to make, buy and sell fake ones there. So any "old coins" you see for sale in the streets and tourist-trap marketplaces over there are 100% guaranteed to be fake. Most of these "tourist copies" are quite shoddily done and an expert can quickly spot them. When anyone over there finds ancient coins (and it happens quite a lot), they either hand them over to the government (if they're honest) or try to smuggle them out of the country. They certainly wouldn't sell them to tourists. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Valued Member
United States
136 Posts |
Oh man; that's really disheartening. I had no idea. Any tell tale signs to look for? I know it's like that with autographs. They are easily forged but I was thinking that coins would be hard to do (you'd need die and metals and then try to make them look used/old). Seems like a lot to go through for something not worth very much. I just bought a dinosaur egg and had to learn all about that before buying one because in China, they are WIDELY replicated (I learned some are crude like cement and some are actually pretty good copies). Amazing! I have the same problem with coach purse and stuff like that. The consumer needs to go through a lot of research before buying anything these days apparently! SAD. PS In Jordan, my husband bought me a little stone idol. The seller told him it was about 150 years old. I knew right off it wasn't right. The stone's carvings weren't even caked in dirt; they looke newley carved/scratched and there was only rock wear and not hand wear where they might hold or rub the little idol thingy... so I just know he got ripped on that one.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
It all comes with practise as well as knowing whom you are buying from. Firstly, instead of wasting money on buying coins, I recommand buying catalogues and study known designs well enough. Get a look for the various examples of counterfeited coins and if you want to specialize in a field, look out for the well known counterfeits. Swamperbob is the man when it comes down to Mexician coinages. And actually, catalogues don't really have to come at an expensive price, you can even learn various examples on this coin forum.
And to note the severity of counterfeited coins, I got a damaged counterfeited die for under 30USD. Obviously sellers nowadays don't do this because they don't want to get caught with the evidence that they are producing such.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseriesMy numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htmRegularly updated at least once a month. |
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Valued Member
China
79 Posts |
haha, thanks to everyone here.
I'd really like to communicate with these frank fellas.
Edited by Alf_coin
10/31/2007 11:09 pm
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Replies: 29 / Views: 2,726 |
Posted 10/31/2007 05:39 am
