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 Replies: 17 / Views: 3,181 |
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
I collect restrike and original 1780 Maria Theresa thalers. In over 10 years of collecting I have only three original 1780 MTT in my collection. One of my pet hates on ebay is listings like this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Maria-The...em35e6e42f78I think the MTT is well worth collecting but its sellers like this one who damage the hobby, by souring the collecting experience of newbies. The coin in the listing is a restrike. For those who do not know the coin well there is one inviolate rule: Look at the reverse of the coin and focus on the spelling of AVST DUX. If AVST is spelt with a "V" its a restrike. Note: The rule doesn't work in reverse ie: not all MTT with a "U" in AUST are originals. Years ago I used to contact such sellers....now I don't bother. Such listings still annoy me greatly. This post is just to vent my annoyance and also pass on a timely warning to those who might be caught out by such a sale. Edit: I went back a read the listing more fully. The seller states quite clearly the coin is not a "2013 restrike". It reminds me of the guy who advertised an old car as rust free. When people turned up to look at it and found it was so rusty that only the paint was holding it together, the seller would say "Yes its rust free. I am not charging you a single cent for the rust!" Edited by austrokiwi
03/17/2015 06:41 am
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Forum Dad
 United States
24170 Posts |
He just needed a heads up.
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Pillar of the Community
 2087 Posts |
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He just needed a heads up. Thats good to see. In past I have pointed out such errors to sellers ( politely) On far too many occasions I get a rude reply back telling me I don't know what I am talking about, with the experiences of those rude responses I can't be bothered advising sellers any more. Some have given me the impression that they believe that no one can tell the difference so they can say what ever they like. Edited by austrokiwi
03/17/2015 08:04 am
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Forum Dad
United States
24170 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
So we need a coin forum to share our knowledge and information.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
We really need more people interested in learning about coins BEFORE they collect.
Most collectors need to get burned a few times it seems before they even start asking questions.
How to do this is way beyond me. My book has sold only a few hundred copies yet worldwide I know there must be much more interest in the variety. I am quite convinced that knowledge, especially detailed knowledge, is intimidating and it tends to put people off.
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
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I am quite convinced that knowledge, especially detailed knowledge, is intimidating and it tends to put people off. Keep it up and never give up. I am sure the situation will be better. It seems the same rationale to history of a coin. Most collectors in Hong Kong and also in China, I guess, they look for the appreciation to their coins most. |
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
I Quote:
am quite convinced that knowledge, especially detailed knowledge, is intimidating and it tends to put people off. For a significant number ( not necessarily a majority) your right. I think its the same in all fields of interest, some just want to be spoon fed; a smaller number will go and read the book, a smaller number will question the book, and an even smaller number will end up writing a new book. The other issue is that when new knowledge contradicts accepted knowledge........I have been shocked at the responses to new indisputable research ( mint records). One author just stated he wasn't going to include the information because everyone accepts the cataloging as it is. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Here's another ebay auction making the same claim: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUSTRIA-178...ht_81wt_1153The problem is that Romania has become such a nexus of numismatic nonsense that you have to seriously consider whether any listing originating there might not be for an out and out fake, which may be unfair to this seller. Colligo ergo sum
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
And heres another one in a floor auction. Note the "V" in "AVST". Whats really annoying is the auctioneers should know better. Karlsburg didn't strike MTT in 1780. http://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?a...&lot=1629664I should add a cautionary note: Even back in 1812 Vienna mint officials were referring to Vienna mint restrikes as "originals'" so Perhaps there is a different meaning in german, of "original" one I am not aware of. the 1812 reference was in the context of pointing out the proper MTT type was the one produced in Vienna....funny thing is 4 years later they were sending Dies to Venice that were modelled on the Guenzburg type. Edited by austrokiwi
03/19/2015 06:00 am
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Pillar of the Community
Austria
566 Posts |
What a terrible mistake. This auctioneer should loose his auction license LOL :)
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Pillar of the Community
Austria
566 Posts |
Sorry for being sarcastic, but the sentence above shows the reality: Nobody at an auction house cares for such a mistake.
Still you can contact the auctioneer, maybe he will be grateful or will just hang up the phone on you.
Both happened to me in the past.
I have reported forgeries, mistakes and other problems.
People mostly hate me for that as it shows, that they and their staff is not capable.
Generally they tend to look to one from above and not to care about the details.
This is why I would always recommend a honest and experienced dealer as a source for numismatic material.
Often you will get a better price, better service and communication even for affordable coins like the one mentioned above.
Also the return policy of a good dealer would be better.
Edited by coinworldtv
03/19/2015 05:34 am
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
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What a terrible mistake. This auctioneer should loose his auction license LOL :) but lets put it in context: excluding the Madonna Thaler produced by Kremnitz there are not more than 30 examples of Original 1780 MTT known to exist, 2 examples from Prague, 3 from Guenzburg, and the remainder from Vienna. They are of some numismatic significance but because the market can't be bothered differentiating between a restrike and an original original 1780 strikes change hands at around €1200.00. Restrikes with fake countermarks on them often receive higher prices. I believe Auction houses, with the who-cares approach to what is a restrike and what isn't, actually damage the market. I think an original Guenzburg MTT is of significant importance numismatically. Its the coin that ended up being Restruck for over 200 years. With only three examples currently known €1500.00 is a joke price! |
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Pillar of the Community
Austria
566 Posts |
Austrokiwi, I think, that you explained that about 30 times in this forum, I do agree with you.
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
lol and I will probably say it 30 more times
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Pillar of the Community
Austria
566 Posts |
I am perfectly ok with that. LOL :)
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,181 |
Posted 03/17/2015 08:00 am
