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New Collectors And Counterfeits

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 1,624Next Topic  
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AgHoarder's Avatar
Canada
818 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  08:53 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add AgHoarder to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
My question is for the experienced guys: Considering the prevalence and growing sophistication of counterfeits, would you be reluctant to enter the hobby today as a new collector?

It seems inevitable to me that they perfect these coins. The equipment and experience required to detect these fakes would be beyond any beginner's understanding and budget. It may be the most sought after dates right now but if I could turn a dollar of silver and a few cents of cheap labour into a coin worth 20$ or even 10$, why not?

I'm glad I can afford this hobby but it would be devastating for me to find out one day that 10 or 20% of my investment is gone.

I saw a post the other day that showed 5 or 6 Newfies that the poster dismissed as obvious fakes and it scared me because I might have bought those coins, given the right circumstances.

I apologise if I sound cynical. Don't get me wrong, I have taken great pleasure in collecting and educating myself and find this hobby very rewarding but this is a hobby that takes a lot of time to master.

Again, knowing what you know now would you enter the hobby today as a new collector?

Thanks in advance.
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denco7's Avatar
United States
2543 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  09:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add denco7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This hobby is like any other hobby, it is all about knowledge. Collecting antiques, collecting classic cars, collecting vintage anything, counterfeits abound. I used to collect classic cars. The most valuable cars are the numbers matching cars. Well you have to know what numbers, where to find the numbers, how to recognize NOS parts. And you do all that by studying what you collect. Studying genuine as well as counterfeit examples.

Everyone says that "I only buy graded coins, so I don't get stuck with a counterfeit" The graders are just collectors like you and I, who have spent many hours studying and educating themselves on what they grade. It is really nothing that any hobbyist can't aspire to in the limited realm of what they have chosen to collect.
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AgHoarder's Avatar
Canada
818 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  09:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgHoarder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your reply denco.
I guess the point that I was trying to make is that it seems a different environment today then it was 20 or 30 years ago. Everybody learns by making mistakes. Perhaps it is too expensive a lesson to learn today
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AgCoinAu's Avatar
Canada
3049 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgCoinAu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You learn by mistakes.. true.. but sometimes you can learn by others mistakes... or look at Mike Marshal's work... buy the current edition of the charlton coin guy his work is in a section all of it's own in the back.. and shows the most common markers from the counterfeits in china.

Network... talk to dealers (the sheer number of coins that pass through their hands is crazy) and so they get exposed to counterfeits as well... It's amazing what can be learned.. and in my experience there's so many people here that are happy to sit, chat and educate... all for the cost of a cup of coffee or a beer... (mmm beer!) On a side ... I also generally like to pay for my education so to those that have taught me something I really like to buy something from them.

Can counterfeits turn a new person off this hobby... for sure.. but as it was previously mentioned there are counterfiets in many other areas as well.. it just forces you to become a more discerning collector.

I think of the art, furniture and fashion world and see how many knockoffs there are.. it's almost impossible to find the legitamate piece... but they are still out there and people still collect 'em.
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AgHoarder's Avatar
Canada
818 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  12:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgHoarder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks AgCoinAu,
I have read that section of the Charlton and have learned very much. It seems that for now, there are some obvious things to look for and with enough study, you can find the knockoffs. Has anyone seen any examples of Canadian fakes that are almost indiscernible?
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matthewvincent's Avatar
United States
3486 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An important question, AgHoarder, and one deserving of a thoughtful answer.

I would approach the hobby with caution. One thing for certain is that I would 'buy into' the need to only purchase slabbed coins (not true, but a reasonable conclusion.)
I would have to be fortunate enough to find a group such as the CCF or a local dealer or club to steer me into what educational tools to acquire [reference materials and experience.] Counterfeits have always been with us.
And I would have to have the courage to "take the plunge" into purchasing low value coins.

Most importantly, I would have to have faith that certain 'voices of experience' would have my needs and goals
placed above personal motivations. Perhaps until such trust was earned I would wait until making any substantial purchase.

Beyond this, I can understand why any new collector has a great deal to be mistrustful of.






Valued Member
pfrien's Avatar
Canada
127 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pfrien to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you are new to this hobby, and are buying lower priced coins, I would not be too worried about counterfeits. Just be careful as to attempt to go into the more expensive coins.
Valued Member
ben89's Avatar
United States
73 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  2:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ben89 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
possibility of counterfeits has turned me off from buying numismatic value coins. coins that arnt much above metal value are pretty easy to tell if counterfit. which I feel is a good way to get into the field as I'mstill entry level. once I get comfortable with the foundation ill move onto more valuable coins
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CoinCollector2012's Avatar
United States
8137 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2012 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"I only buy graded coins, so I don't get stuck with a counterfeit"


Pretty soon they will have also perfected fake coins in fake slabs.

When I entered this hobby, I had no idea that counterfeit coins were as prevalent as I now know they are. Most of these coins can be avoided by buying from reputable dealers, seeing the coin in person, and educating yourself. Be warned though, as the fakes will only get better...
Valued Member
Canada
495 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As one who has also raised a red flag on this topic of fakes in other threads on this site. I advise treading softly and carry a big book and seek advice here where knowledge abounds that might save you as it has me from going into the nether world of the forgers who lurk in the muddy waters waiting to snare us. Like other members have stated already, this is not the only hobby that has this dark side to it, even the so called experts have been fooled so due diligence my friend and may the force be with you.
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Normic67's Avatar
798 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2015  7:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Normic67 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you buy a coin that is not graded at a trustable coin store chances are that coin is real but if you buy one on ebay AAAnything could happen. Even on ebay if the pic is good enough and you know enough about fake coins, you wont get ripped off. Of coarse I'mnot going to make fake coins myself because that would ruin my own hobby that I know and love. In my life if I have bought a fake coin, I have known it was fake 100% of the time. When I started coin collecting I wasn't thinking of the possibility of buying fake coins, I was just having fun and then years later I look at those coins and discover that none I bought when I was younger were fake which is a huge relief to me. The possibility of buying a fake coin should be no reason at all to not start coin collecting if you do want to start... its just like people that keep there coins in a safety deposit box at a bank, just because you could get them stolen or whatever reason you have they STIL shouldn't be actually stored at your bank.
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