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Has The Primary Source For Building A Collection Changed?

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SFDukie's Avatar
United States
980 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2005  2:39 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SFDukie to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
A while back National Dealer linked the CoinWorld trends article that stated that auctions, rather than the floors of coin shows was the greatest source of new materials
http://www.coinworldtrends.com/cont...483&visitor=
now cwt has a new article up which claims that due to the changing market, building a collection of which one can be proud requires more time and patience than in the recent past:
http://www.coinworldtrends.com/cont...489&visitor={5EFFAA0E-C7FA-4848-9CEA-F38EBA95618A}
What do long term collectors think-do you agree that it is harder to find nice coins on the bourse, and if so, does it change the way collectors should think about shows?
Don
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catman's Avatar
United States
954 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2005  3:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add catman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, It is much harder to find nice coins at coin shows. You will always find a few. People aren't selling their coins to dealers as much as they did pre-internet. These days they have found they can get more money for them by selling them on ebay and such.

Coin show dealers also have a knack for overgrading their items as well which makes you have to be very careful of what your buying.

catman
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2005  3:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with the advent of online auctions, I would say that the brick and mortar dealers as well as the coin show dealers will have to change their approach if they want to survive,,

The people of todays world are the fast food generation, convienance of shopping from my easy chair at home people.

So yes the way that a person puts together a collection has changed, the Local dealer who used to be the source of information and service is now almost a last resort person.

TPG's and the added value of the plastic has also changed the coin collecting world, IMO for the worse !!

Rick

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Kyra's Avatar
United States
867 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2005  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kyra to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't get to too many coin shows, but I can say that sometimes it takes a looong time for the coin I'm looking for to turn up in the shop. I'm kinda squeamish about buying coins sight unseen off of ebay or whereever. Fortunately I have a great dealer at the shop who will let me put in a "wish list", and he'll contact me when what I want comes in.

Rachel [:p]
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Gary Burke's Avatar
United States
3730 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2005  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gary Burke to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Living where I do, the coin shows are few and far between.

I trust my local (40 miles away) dealer, and both he and his daughter can get me most whatever I want, at a fair price.
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catman's Avatar
United States
954 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2005  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add catman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kyra,

I wouldn't worry about buying stuff off the internet. You have a lot of members here that will help look out for you. If you see something your interested in ask the members to look at it and give you feedback. You will find the members here to be a great help.

catman
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wrk4lvg's Avatar
United States
756 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2005  11:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wrk4lvg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With the little over head the internet provides, it's amazing that a lot of store fronts aren't out of buisness. I commend you all that do own stores and are able to overcome those that don't own a store and come in with competitive prices.

Me personally, I will keep looking at the internet. As you have read in past post, I just didn't strike it rich with the locals. I am a VERY personable person and expect to be treated like you have known me forever. I am not asking for my backside to be kissed, rather, a sense of equality.

I don't know, in the end, dealers have mouths to feed too.
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longnine009's Avatar
United States
1247 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2005  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add longnine009 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by longnine009

Before the Internet I used to go to the local coin show every month. I got to tell you it got real old looking at the same stuff month after month. The only time stuff moved out was when it went from one dealer to another.

I think brick and morter coin dealers who sell to the average joe are in big trouble. Technology has never been an "everyone wins" situation. When Catman had his ice box replaced with a refrigerator the ice man lost a customer and Thomas Edison gained a customer. Or maybe it was Telsa that hooked Catman first. [:0] It's always been a lie that everyone wins with technology. Some win, some lose and some don't care. Right now the internet just offers too many choices that no brick and morter dealer can compete with. And this may end up be a problem for internet dealers as well. Too many choices also means that everyone is free to pursue the most bizarre topical collections they can think of. Internet dealers may be banging their heads someday trying to anticipate what coin collectors will think up next. Isn't that one of the things dealers do? Try to anticipate what collectors will want and sell it to them. The Wild, wild west just made a U-turn.
I think future internet dealers are going to have to be like the fashion industry and try and invent topicals themes before collectors do.

The brick and morter dealers who sell trophey coins might not be affected as much by the internet. They may not be affected at all. But then trophey coins are a narrowed area. It's easy to figure out where the jillionaires will go. They'll go to wherever the next trophey coin is.

Edited by longnine009
09/14/2005 11:32 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2005  4:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Metalman
I would say that the brick and mortar dealers as well as the coin show dealers will have to change their approach if they want to survive,


Oh come on now, you should have known that I would pick this one apart. Sometimes I think that you (metalman) do this to stir my pot a little
First, let us look at some numbers. According to ebay, there gross profits are in the 4 Billion dollar range worldwide on all of their products, with 430,000 sellers.
The coin industry is a 15 Billion Dollar industry. That is just the reported earnings. Anyone attending any show will agree that a lot of business is done in cash.
ebay is FAR from the best coin venue in this country, let alone the world.
NO ONE has ever shown me consistant sales on ebay that are consistantly above GREYSHEET prices. It seems as if internet users begin and end their day with ebay. What is the facisnation?

More real world numbers.

Bowers and Merena average auction $8 Million
Heritage average auction $6 Million
David Lawrence average auction $4 Million
ANR average auction $6 Million

This is just a few examples. And guess what? These are NOT yearly totals, they are average totals. Bowers has 10 to 12 auctions per year.

These articles are NOT talking about run of the mill junk coins that are found on these internet auction sites, but RARE coins. Can anyone remember the last time a Mint State 1921-S Walker was offered on ebay? Anyone remember any Rare Mint State coin being sold on ebay?

Sure you get a few dealers who put some $50,000 coins out there for shock value, but when did any sell?

The above four auction companies that I listed ROUTINELY offer coins deep into 6 figures. With each auction, many rare coins change hands. Find a PROOF Half Cent on ebay. Find an 1895 Morgan.

ebay allows people to play dealer. Simple as that.

There is NOT 1 single seller on ebay that is a direct competitor of my firm. NOT ONE. I could care less about the few million dollars that gets sold on ebay.

When they reach the BILLION dollar mark in Rare coins, Maybe just Maybe I would take a second to consider being associated with them.

I know that I have stated my views on these internet flea markets a hundred times. If you want ripped off, go ahead. Facts are facts. More counterfeits and lousy 3rd party coins are sold on internet auctions than ANY show floor.
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Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 09/27/2005  7:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! I was having mixed emotions as I read down this thread, but ND put the finishing touches on my concluding thoughts, all in a nutshell. Yes, ebay is a great place to find ALMOST all the coins needed for a series or a specific collection. The keyword is "almost". To polish off this collection to completion with the really rare date (1895 Morgan is a good example), presuming cost is immaterial, one is going to have to go through a reputable dealer or a coin show. ebay just does not normally attract buyers looking for five and six-figure truly rare coins (although, as ND said, some put them out there to tantalize: here's some luscious six- and seven-figure ebay offers from Michael Casper: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcaspercoinQ2ecom ). Certainly, if I were to spent that kind of money (yeah, right) on a rare coin, I'd want to hold it in my hot little hands before plopping down the bread.

Fortunately, there is a place in our hobby for all coin sources such that anyone can play and build a decent collection from his/her preferred or most convenient source.

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