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 Replies: 11 / Views: 1,386 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
I thought I'd raise a point that might have relevance to other collectors who buy coins via the internet. After recently closing a deal on a 1909-S VDB and now awaiting its arrival, another collector saw the dealer's photo and suggested it might be graded as an RB vs. RD. While I'm generally familiar with coin grades, I'm hardly an expert, so I conducted a test to see how well a confirmed "red" penny photographs under different lighting conditions and backgrounds. The first three are of the same 1966 example, which under examination is clearly BU with no toning at all. The fourth is the coin in question. Doing this test, I found interesting how a very bright "red" penny can almost look dark/toned under some lighting conditions. That's a possible effect to consider, since those who buy online may be forced to choose between an aesthetically pleasing but ungraded coin, or a slabbed coin that was shot under flat lighting conditions. In this scenario, both coins may actually be just as bright, and other features such as strike depth and blemishes will be similarly hard to compare. (A scattered vs direct light source will hide more surface blemishes on a coin, but will give an impression of a shallower strike.)  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Kurt
Its ok if you use my name as the poster who said that the coin by looking at the pictures was borderline for the Red designation .
The only reason that I would not or could not say that it would designate as Red is because of the shadows and PCGS's own scale for Red -VS- Red Brown .
100 to 95 % original Mint Bloom is needed to designate Red .. 95 to 5 % for the Red Brown Designation , the coin that was pictured showed areas of darkness which I cannot tell if they are Photographic relics or lighting or on the coin .
Please share your own pics of the coin after you have it in hand ,, I may be able to change my opinion to a more firm position concerning the color .
Metalman
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Here is a Red lincoln that is lite very similarly to the 09-S VDB lighting from the top at an angle down over the coin . The lighting on your other pics looks like it is from the left and fairly low angle to the coin on the first two and higher but still to the left of the bust on the third. Please note the differences in the appearance of the fields both right and left of the bust between the two photo's also the more brown appearance of the bust itself on the 09 compared to this photo.  This is an interesting thread ,, since the color of that particular coin can change the value by a considerable amount of dollars . Metalman |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2443 Posts |
Here are mine. I bought them from a forum member here and he can chime in if he wants and can comment on the redness of the coins. I'm not a lincoln expert but to me they would be red.    Sorry no reverse for the '49-S. Here's a link to the auction to compare: https://goccf.com/t/20280Edited by Amazon99
11/23/2007 6:40 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5318 Posts |
Metalman,
I appreciate your comments, because it raises a very good issue regarding how we judge coins from photographs.
And I see you got some nice light on that 58-D, which is something I could not duplicate with my lighting setup here.
The '66 coin I shot is as bright as recent strikes in my pocket change, but I could not capture this with my camera.
I imagine a less bright, but fully "red" penny would appear even darker. All said, I'll know for sure when the coin arrives, and I'll post followup pics.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19942 Posts |
Lincoln's are somewhat difficult to accurately photograph. Based on the photo above of the 1909, I have to agree with Metalman. Assuming the dark areas are due to brown toning and not photography. It's a tough call without seeing some different (and stronger) lighting. Amazon, obviously I've held those coins in my hand and inspected them closely, they are fully red.  Sometimes pics are deciving. |
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Moderator
 United States
6563 Posts |
GO shall never understand you weird people that see extra colors that aren't there  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
Amazon--I think those are clearly red too, despite the dark areas of the pics. But, as BadThad said, you really know when you see these in person. Ok, another grading challenge--grade these three obverses RD or RB: a.  b.  c.  Edited by KurtS
11/24/2007 12:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Hi Kurt
I would not be able to label any of the coins anything but RB if I supplied a color with my grade estimates.
knowing that photo's can be deceiving the pictures would have to be very good for me to say emphatically one way or the other .
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19942 Posts |
The lighting is just not right on those pics for me to judge. Like I said, pics can be very deceiving. Look at the pics of my 1933 which is fully RED, there's not so much as a trace of brown on this coin...it's so bright red it hurts your eyes! LOL   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2443 Posts |
Thanks everyone. I agree that they are red, but I didn't want to say that I'm confident that they're 100% red since it's not my field of expertise. I just posted them to show how different lighting can make Lincolns look different.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts |
Answer: those three coins are PCGS slabbed as RD MS63-65.
I'm sure this can be attributed to photography.
Metalman: thanks for alerting me to the possibility of an RB grade.
I have inspected this coin in hand, and I now think the obverse has some RB traits, so I'll probably pass on this coin. The RD grade is just too volatile presently for me to buy a possible borderline coin. I have an MS64 RB 09-S VDB that's a safer bet.
Thanks everyone!
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Replies: 11 / Views: 1,386 |
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Posted 11/23/2007 6:34 pm
