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 Replies: 25 / Views: 4,961 |
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts |
So I tried to put up my 1872 California Dollar, variety BG-1119, on ebay twice, and twice it has been taken down due to the restrictions on replica coins. I am 100% cinfident it isn't a replica coins, all attributes, Cuds, repunches are there. Strike weakness occurs on the same place and weakness as certifeid coins. The lamination flaw at 4 o'clock on obverse sure isn't a valid argument for it to be a replica Is there any way to get around this without submitting it to a TPG? I don't want to try and put it up again. Can I argue with ebay? Bought a while back at a prominent auction house in Europe, and very sure they don't sell replicas as real. What's your verdict?     and here is the lamination flaw if anyone is interested  Edited by epikur
04/05/2015 10:19 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
I doubt any counterfeiter would add the rim Cud and re-punched O in DOLLAR. I'll bet the person nuking your auction knows zero about this series. I know zero myself, but a simple look at PCGS CoinFacts proves it as a righteous coin in my opinion. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
I don't know the series but I want one! Very cool coin... it dosent scream solid gold to me though? maybe that lower right obverse rim looked like a copper core with gold plating coin to them?
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
You are caught in a bad situation here, epikur. These are so commonly counterfeited that there's no way one goes through ebay raw. I see no reason to doubt this one - they're available in high grade and with Prooflike surfaces - but fraud is so rampant that there's no way I wold allow the auction without inspecting the coin in-hand. It's value is over the $2500 "slab required" point anyway. I don't understand why they didn't tell you that. Here's a slightly earlier die state: http://coins.ha.com/itm/california-.../1154-7085.s |
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Pillar of the Community
 Sweden
729 Posts |
I could understand why they are cautious and prefer slabbed coins. I did do extensive research and comparisons before making my purchase.
But here I might have a Catch22; The lamination flaw might be positioned in a way that PCGS won't slab it with risk of it being a code 83 (A coin which has a planchet flaw that is serious enough to flake away in the sealing process. (This no-grade will not be sealed in a PCGS holder))
If that is a risk, I'm kind of stuck with it:P
Love the coin though
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
From what I can ascertain through a photo, it appears to have all the markers of a genuine California Gold coin. However, a common way to counterfeit/replicate these coins, is to take a genuine coin, make a mold of the genuine coin and produce cast fakes of gold plated silver and copper, with all the Cuds, die breaks and lamination errors of the original. I am sure with your attention to detail, you have determined that all the indications of a casting are not there. Unfortunately everyone and their neighbor who has , even a cursory knowledge of this series, fancies themselves an expert. And chomp at the bit to report fakes and counterfeits to $bay. Your photos have that pale color and uneven look of a casting, so I am sure all these junior sleuths were all over it, neglecting the fact that it probably looks totally different in hand. I agree with Dave, a coin of this caliber/price point can only benefit from a TPG's assessment. Not so much for your piece of mind, but for the ignorant and any potential buyer. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Note the heavy obverse clashing - that doesn't fake easily.  This coin should come across the pond to a reputable American auction house, anyway, should you choose to liquidate. Prior communication with them to establish the authentication process would be necessary. Another possibility is a private-party consignment sale via a dealer with a specialty in this area, who would have regular customers in this range. Classic Gold collectors tend to be a knowledgeable lot, and will be less intimidated by a raw coin than others. |
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts |
I am aiming to liquidate the coin, since it's not a focus of my collection.
I am considering to cosign to Summer FUN, but will have to check with Sarah at Heritage, if I will make their platinum night or not.
Have already sent an email to PCGS regarding if they could make some sort of descicion regarding the severity of the lamination flaw, if it's slabbable or not...
I dont't want this one in a NGC slab, that's for sure...
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Yeah, pull out the stops. It may not be worth the price of a Mercedes, but it's no slouch and an important piece of American history. There is no doubt a buyer out there who cannot wait to throw you a price you'll think fair for this one.
Definitely a Platinum Night coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
While I certainly take heart that ebay is making some effort to police their offerings, this one looks much better, probably a genuine piece, than do the vast majority of fakes on ebay that easily don't pass muster. Had this unslabbed gold piece been posted on ebay, without reserve, my guess is that it would not have realized as good a price as it would in a major auction. If ebay had acquiesced, and a reasonable reserve posted, it may well not have sold. Surely, this coin, assuming it is genuine, is deserving of a PCGS slab. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
675 Posts |
Please keep us posted when it goes up for auction! Although it is too rich for my blood, I would like to see how it does. Personally, I would feel better selling this type of coin at a major auction house rather than trusting ebay to moderate any potential disputes. |
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts |
Well, it's not going up on summer FUN. they have a $5k minimum value for cosignments for that auction, which Sarah at Heritage didn't think it would value at. I'm not sure I want to cosign to their normal Signature auctions
So I might just have to send it to PCGS in Paris myself. Might look good with that eiffel tower label :P
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
Quote:
So I might just have to send it to PCGS in Paris myself. Might look good with that eiffel tower label :P Ha......ha..... only if you pair it with a gold 20 franc coin with a Golden Gate Bridge label  Good luck with the sale, it is a beautiful coin.  Edited by denco7
04/06/2015 5:46 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
Hmmm ... California gold ... Why not consider a west coast auction?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
does pcgs paris actually have that on their label?
Feel free to call me Will.
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
729 Posts |
Quote:
Hmmm ... California gold ... Why not consider a west coast auction? hmm, I guess I could do Long Beach Will think about it overnight |
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Replies: 25 / Views: 4,961 |
Posted 04/05/2015 10:41 am
