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 Replies: 171 / Views: 18,907 |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
Can the bellow's systems discussed in other threads be used with the Cannon I mentioned as well?
We don't recommend you use anything *but* Canon; the bellows systems are camera-agnostic. There's an adapter for everything. I've a full inch of clearance between the popup and the Vivitar bellows I'm using. Dar, one decent lens will shoot the full-face images of all those coins. It's our usual pressure to fill the sensor with the coin, but frankly if you still need to downsize the image to post at 1000px here, you're almost certainly getting well-gradable results. I'm thinking maybe you want to go the higher-megapixel route for the camera. That gives you more effective magnification - bigger initial images meaning bigger details, and you need less magnification to get even closer. Magnification affects "effective" aperture, more mag makes that effective aperture number go up therefore pushing you closer to DLA. So for someone wanting to shoot small details, more megapixels might override the less favorable DLA of tighter pixel pitch. Canon 100mm Macro on a T2i (just for disclosure; the lens counts less than the mag here). 100% crops from the lens pushed to about 1x magnification (not very much - that's putting a Silver Trime 1:1 on the sensor). You can get pretty close without blowing up mag levels when you have a whole_bunch of megapixels in hand.    |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1476 Posts |
Ok, So I had all but decided to go ahead and get the Rebel T5i refurbished and go from there.  Then the wife gets home from shopping today.  She tells me to come out to the kitchen for a minute so I do. There, on the Kitchen table is a box about 11x18x24. She say's, "Go ahead and open it. it's the Gold piece you wanted to get this year" I said "  Umm, That's an awful big box". And opened it. It turn's out, she went and purchased us, (me), a new camera. Very nice huh?  I open the box to find a BRAND NEW Canon EOS 70D (w)!!  How could I refuse?! It came with; - EFS 18-55mm image stabilizer lens, MACRO 0.25/0.8ft - EFS 55-250mm image stabilizer MACRO 0.85m/2.8ft. - usb cables - HDMI to mini HDMI 6' cable - 2 batteries and charger - 32Gb SDHC card - Bag, camera strap. - EOS Digital Solutions CD, tutorial DVD, and CD manuals for both the camera and the software + the little printed version's of each as well. How's that for a start in equipment?  It was well over the limit I had stated I had to work with in the beginning so I'll have to curb buying coins for a while so I can get the other things I'm going to need. But it's worth it. I do already have a little table top tripod and a full size one so they will have to take the place of a copy stand for a bit. But I do still plan on getting one. I also will need one of the Macro len's we are discussing as well. But at least I have my foot in the door. I did go online and order'd an AC adapter from the Canon web site so that will be here in a few days as well. The manual reminds me of when I was working on ICBM's in the AF but more complicated.  So, What do you think? This WILL work right? Charlie |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
So, What do you think? This WILL work right?
Snerk. I think so. It is, though, in essence no different than any other Canon dSLR we discuss. The 20.2MP sensor means you see DLA earlier than an 18MP, but frankly even if you're into distortion by the time you downsize these images to forum size nobody will know. It still has the EFSC and Live View which are Canon's advantages. What I don't know is how the new software does tethering. I've heard it's different, but I know zilch of the new capabilities or lack thereof. This camera is probably better equipment than I'll ever be able to use outdoors. The two lenses are the best Canon has in the price range. Just don't expect them to be of much use with coins, and their concept of "macro" means they can focus a little closer than their peers. That still ain't much. I've experimented somewhat with the 18-55, and at 50-55 it's OK but no better. It will still be excellent for depicting full slabs when you don't necessarily want to grade the result; it's plenty sharp for that. It occurs to me that we need to get a copy of the newest version of the "old" software archived somewhere, stat.It's the right of any Canon dSLR owner to have a copy because it came free with the camera. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
Dar...I think your wife did well. The 70D, unlike the 60D, has a useful EFSC mode. After the 60D came out and EFSC did not work well on it, folks complained that Canon lost the recipe for EFSC. Canon seems to have listened, and in fact offered more options on the 70D to allow users to choose how EFSC works. Unlike the TXi series, which puts the camera into EFSC mode whenever Live View is on, the 70D requires you to select a silent mode to activate it. You need to choose correctly, so will need to learn how to use this mode. On previous cameras, it was done for you automatically. You can read about it in the thread I started here: http://www.photomacrography.net/for...non+70d+efscContact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
Quote:
ok, I will be shooting Dimes to Dollars, (3 cent pieces to Trade Dollars/ASE's) at least to start.
Also, I am Very interested in error's, (who am I kidding, I LOVE error's), so I guess it will have to be good enough to shoot RPMS, VAMS, Clashes, DD's ect...
Can the bellow's systems discussed in other threads be used with the Cannon I mentioned as well?
I really can't afford the Macro len's at $1000.00 a pop for a while. OK, now that you have the camera, let's work on making it work for coins... First, forget about using the lenses it came with. Those are for landscapes and portraits. As SD says the 18-55 will work for larger stuff like slabs, and can work for ASEs and Dollars, but for Halves and smaller you'll want better. The recommendation we usually make is to use a copy lens or enlarging lens on bellows. This is the most flexible system for wide-range macro (ie from 1:4 up to 4:1 or higher magnification). Regular macro lenses will only take you to 1:1, and are much more expensive. An advantage of bellows is they usually have a tripod mount built-in. So you can mount it and the lens to your tripod, and when you want to take family photos or whatever, you can remove the camera without disturbing your coin setup. There has been a lot of discussion regarding setups using extension tubes. Search for "<$400" or "<$350" threads for more info. For this type of setup, you mount the camera to the tripod or copy stand, and the lens mounts to the end of fixed extension tubes. A short-throw helicoid offers some focus/magnification adjustability, but most of the adjustment is through different length extensions. This is an inexpensive option and good for a fixed setup dedicated to coins. So your next decision is if you want to be able to easily remove the camera for other photographic purposes, or dedicate it to a coin photography setup. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1476 Posts |
Quote:
So your next decision is if you want to be able to easily remove the camera for other photographic purposes, or dedicate it to a coin photography setup. It's not possible to have both? My main purpose would be for my coin's but I would also like to use it for other subject matter as well. I was under the assumption, maybe incorrectly, that this camera would work for both as long as I had the correct attachments. Is it really difficult to switch between or are we just considering cost/ease factors? I do have ALOT more research to do as well I know, and would like to get the most out of the equipment as I can. I guess I will concentrate on getting it set up for coins as a specialty though and then see what else there is. If I sound somewhat confused in these posts, it's because I am. Charlie |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Solidity being critical, a very secure attachment between bellows and camera is important. Mine has to be setscrewed in place in addition to the adapter, although that's partly so rotating adjustment of the camera atop the bellows is possible. That's the "inconvenience" Ray is talking about - having to play with the setscrew and re-square the camera to the coin backdrop every time you remove it. And the setscrew can be a bit hard to reach, unless you're my size and even I have trouble getting on it. But setscrews are cheap, and I own needlenose pliers. I have no idea how close my squaring is. I let what I see on the monitor tell me if the coin is square to the sensor, and after that nobody knows anyway. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
Charlie...confusion is my fault, sorry for that. We're talking more about cost/ease factors as you said. Let's go through a setup/takedown flow to explain...
For bellows setup, you would first mount the bellows to the tripod, then attach the lens, then the camera. You would then use a mirror to align the sensor vs the coin surface. This is especially important for tripod shooting since the tripod can be at any angle and even a little off "flat" makes a difference in your result. Now let's say you want to take a family photo. You would remove the camera, install one of the nice lenses you got with it, and do your portrait or garden shot. To go back to coins, just remove the lens and re-mount the camera to the bellows.
For extensions + lens setup, you first mount the camera to the tripod, then attach the extensions, then the lens, then use the mirror to align sensor vs coin surface. For the family photos, you would remove the camera + extensions + lens from the tripod, remove the extensions + lens, then install one of your camera lenses. To go back to coins, you start over, including the mirror alignment procedure, because the camera alignment has been disturbed.
Hope this makes sense and fixes the confusion.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
This seems relevant so I thought I'd post it here... There is an older B&L boom stand for sale on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/38123511277...RK:MEBIDX:ITThe price is good since it includes free shipping, which could easily run half the asking price. The problem is the stand has no boom! But I have an extra one, and I've been eying the stand for a few days, thinking I would build a whole one. I will indeed buy this if no one else does. But if someone wants to use this boom stand to build a coin photography setup, I could supply the boom and accessories to make it happen. Note that this is the exact stand I use on my desktop for my stereozoom microscope for variety viewing. It swings away when not in use. I also created a "swappable" system with two heads, one for stereo microscope, one that mounts a bellows, and can be converted back and forth easily. So this stand can be used for stereo microscope, for photo setup, or for a combo setup. It is a buy it now so no competition on price, just on who buys it. If you do purchase it, reply back to this post or email me and we can work out the details on what sort of setup makes sense. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1476 Posts |
Ray, email sent. Also, If I were to buy a Canon macro lens for my set up, which would you guy's suggest? I am following them on ebay and was wondering if the 100mm would work or If it would be better to go 150/180mm? I'm really don't know and would like my equipment to match up seeing the expense on the initial camera set up my wife was nice enough to spend. Charlie |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
If you're going that way, the 100mm Macro (non-L version). It'll cost as much as a 70D body ($550-ish). You'll still need a stand, and you're going to need the ability to get the front of the lens at least 15" above the surface to ensure being able to shoot Dollars. Longer focal lengths than that will need even more relief, and aren't much use to us. And what I posted above is as hard as you can push one. 1:1 magnification. You'll need everything else we've talked about in this thread to get any more magnification than that.
Other third party macro lenses in similar focal length - Sigma, Tamron, Tokina - can be had for slightly less, and are of equal quality and sharpness to the Canon. Absolutely no reason for you not to consider them, because they will function exactly as a Canon lens will with your camera, electronics, autofocus, all that.
I cannot in good conscience recommend any of them, unless you'll never need any more magnification that that and you plan on shooting macro besides coins. There is no justification for spending that kind of money on shooting coins any more. It's throwing money away in my opinion. They cost more than a whole rig of greater capability.
Do a bellows rig, and spend the $400 you just saved on a nice coin.
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Pillar of the Community
921 Posts |
Quote:
dar wrote:
I open the box to find a BRAND NEW Canon EOS 70D (w)!! Very nice!! I believe you owe yer wife a few neck, back & foot massages for a little while now. Wash her car, make her supper too...even let her play a few games of tanks on your account...hehe Your next step would be the "Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM lens" along with a copy stand & a usb microscope... I have a ""Firenze Mini Repro Copy Stand with Dual Light Bars"(first pic below) but found them too pricey to buy new, so find one used on ebay. I found a usb microscope on ebay which is great for the close up zooms, along with this "Kaiser Copy Stand RS-1 with RA-1 Arm, 40" Column and 18 x 20" Base" that's really a good price on ebay for you. Pick these up & you will be set for taking coin pics!! Both links are below... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000X-8-LED...em35e17e22aahttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Kaiser-Copy...em27fdfa88c1  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1476 Posts |
Ray, email sent. Thanks. Let me know before it goes away if you can please. and @ aardspeed; Quote:
even let her play a few games of tanks on your account She Already has her Own account and we platoon as often as we can. Don't know how I landed her But I sure am glad. ( , or did she land me)? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1476 Posts |
Orderd the stand and sent you an email ray. Thanks you all very much for your help. You do understand I'm going to be asking ALOT more questions. |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
You do understand I'm going to be asking ALOT more questions.
Keeps me out of Moderns, where I get into trouble. |
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Replies: 171 / Views: 18,907 |
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Posted 04/25/2015 5:44 pm
