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New Coin Photography Setup - Thoughts?

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EFLargeCents's Avatar
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 Posted 05/08/2015  11:37 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add EFLargeCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've reached my breaking point with photographing my coins with a point and shoot and have decided to rekindle a past love of photography in combination with my coin collecting passion.

I've already decided on a camera (Nikon D3300) and will work with the kit lens for starters as I learn. Apart from this I am going to get a decent copy stand. For lighting I'll just get a pair of desk lamps with goose necks and some sort of halogen or similar light output bulb and use various paper towels for diffusion if necessary. I have a piece of glass set aside to rig up axial lighting. Is there anything else I should be looking at for my set up? Should I stick with a white paper background or go with a matte black paper background? I'm new at this kind of set up, having in the past used a point and shoot with a mini tripod and a white piece of printer paper.

While I'll be using Lightroom for the non-coin side of things, I was also wondering what the best way to process side by side obv/rev coin images into one file would be. I have been using Paint, which is crude but got the job done. I'd rather not get Photoshop just for combining two images and cropping. What are other options?

I'll be sure to post some comparisons of old camera vs new camera when I get it all together. I'm looking forward to this transition.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 05/08/2015  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My first question is to ask why you've chosen Nikon when - for coins only - Canon offers a clearly superior solution. There are a whole_bunch of good reasons to go Nikon, though, and it'll hardly be a slouch with coins. Just a more labor-intensive choice.
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 Posted 05/08/2015  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EFLargeCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great question! I went with Nikon because I don't want to shoot only coins. After looking into entry level DSLR's in my price range, and weighing all the reviews I could find, the Nikon D3300 stood out as my best choice overall and should last me many many years moving forward. I approached camera choice from the aspect of landscape/wildlife photography and having the most recent technology. The Canon offerings in my price range were a bit lacking in many areas I felt were important, at least at this point in time, which surely will change in the future. I'm not particularly brand loyal, having owned a Canon in the past with great results. A little bit of extra work is no big deal compared to what I have been doing!
Edited by EFLargeCents
05/08/2015 12:23 pm
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 Posted 05/08/2015  12:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK then, your decision is appropriate to your needs.

What you're giving up is Canon's Electronic First Shutter Curtain - EFSC - which makes a difference in sharpness so noticeable that rmpsrpms was able to easily show it in a comparison. Let me qualify that by saying the difference will only be visible when you're at the extremes of 100% crop posting, and even then the result will still be considered by the viewer as "superior" imagery.

The other thing you're giving up is the free tethering software. What we get for free with Canon - and it's a complete game-changer for coin imaging - will cost you about $150 to duplicate. That doesn't mean anything except your coin imaging will be much more process-intensive than Canon shooters are burdened with.

Nikon cameras and optics take no back seat to anyone's, and the things you read here about bellows rigs apply equally to whatever brand of dSLR you put on top of them. Only the adapters - and the expense of those adapters - changes, and Nikon won't be in the "expensive" end of adapter cost.
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 Posted 05/08/2015  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EFLargeCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for these insights. I hadn't even thought of tethering as an option to speed up processing. I was just going to use a card reader as I always have. If I get annoyed with that I will have to look into tethering options for Nikon. I don't typically do a lot of coins at once, usually one or two in a session, so I don't imagine not having this as an option will bother me too much, but having the ability to see the image taken on a large screen immediately is nice for making sure you get it right the first time.

Is MS Paint still acceptable to use in terms of cropping and combining images? Since these images are mainly for posting and archiving, I'm not all that concerned with having monstrous images with super zoom, just sharper images than what I'm used to getting out of a point and shoot. I know I can do more and interesting with Photoshop or similar, but don't really want to pay for it. Is Photoshop Elements worthwhile? It would be nice to black out backgrounds and add slab info or custom info, something that looks horrible using Paint. I haven't used Photoshop in over 10 years, but I might be able to remember how it works once I have it in front of me. Thoughts?
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 Posted 05/08/2015  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The big-smile point of tethering has nothing to do with getting your images to the computer more easily, although it does that too. The point is running the whole photography session with your mouse, and focusing in real time on your monitor. You point the camera downward, and never touch it again unless you need to change the level of magnification. If you're using a bellows with a focusing rail, you reach to your side to turn the adjusting knob and watch the focus change on your monitor at 100% crop. You set all shot parameters, and trigger the shutter, with your mouse.

If you try it once you will never go back.
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 Posted 05/08/2015  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EFLargeCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Being able to do that all from a computer sounds pretty sweet. I will definitely have to research tethering for a Nikon.

One thing I'm not sure of is using a bellows. What about using an extension tube instead of a bellows? A 105mm macro lens? Other than knowing that an extension tube is fairly inexpensive compared to the cost of lenses, how costly is an appropriate bellows setup and are they easily packed up and stored and brought back out again (i don't really have a permanent photography space).

For the time being though I'm going to have to learn with just the kit lens. I've read that it can take decent macro photos, but obviously its going to be lacking vs the correct dedicated macro equipment. I have time yet to determine what will work best in my situation, which is why I am posting here! Any and all input appreciated. I read Dar's photo thread, it's been great! I hope I am not duplicating any questions here.
Edited by EFLargeCents
05/08/2015 3:17 pm
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 Posted 05/08/2015  5:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bpoc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks all for the information. Tagging this to follow and learn.
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 Posted 05/08/2015  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Extension tubes do quite well for the task, aside locking you into a specific magnification. A type which has the appropriate electrical passthrough to allow autofocus and aperture setting will run you close to $100.

Nikon's 105 Macro is a superb lens, capable of turning a ton of your money into images of a quality equal to any here. At one specific magnification.

A bellows is about $50 for a good used one, and will allow you to leverage any number of film duplicating lenses available on ebay in the $25-50 range to equal that 105mm Macro, at whatever magnification you choose to set. Most only work well up to 2x magnification - some a more narrow range than that but at $25 apiece you can afford two. 2x magnification, with your 24MP sensor, is up to about any sort of imaging you'd care to need aside maybe sextupled stars or a microcrystalline study of lustrous fields.

A bellows has a minimum-possible magnification effect, because they have a length dimension even fully closed and serve as an "extension tube" (that's all they are, length-adjustable extension tubes). My personal rig when closed and used with a 75mm focal length has no difficulty getting a whole Morgan onto the sensor. Which, for the record, is a magnification of about 0.4:1. For you, a magnification of 1:1 (which in photography qualifies as "magnification") will completely fill your sensor with a 15.6mm coin (just smaller than a Half Dime). Which means you're going to have an image of a Half Dime that's 4000px in diameter.

You can mount one, preferably the type using an integral focus rail because focus in such a rig means moving the whole thing closer or farther from the subject, on a tripod dangled over the corner of a table. That complicates things because you then have to square the rig each time you shoot, but that will be the same problem whatever lens you mount to the camera. My own setup, using a modified microscope stand from rmpsrpms, takes up 8" by 6" of table space plus lighting....

This is why we push bellows rigs with film duplicating lenses. They're extremely cheap, extremely flexible and provide results on par with $750 bespoke Macro lenses.

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 Posted 05/08/2015  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EFLargeCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I need to mess around with the kit lens and copy stand to see where I stand with what I can achieve before seriously looking into bellows vs tubes vs lenses. Getting that baseline information will help me to visualize what I am missing and how best to achieve it. Rome wasn't built in a day as they say! I am intrigued by the concept of using a bellows, but the simplicity of extension tubes with the appropriate electrical passthrough might be a path to go down as well. I doubt very much I'll be getting that 105mm lens, its a bit pricey, though comes highly recommended.

A Half Dime of that image size is crazy for such a small coin! I guess the next question I should ask is how to compress a file down to a file size fit for posting while maintaining a decently large pixel size on screen. A topic for another thread perhaps?!
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 Posted 05/08/2015  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mgillette to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I went with the 85mm micro Nikkor lens for my D3200 with the close up filter rather than the 105... I use it for other purposes too. However, it will not fit a teleconverter like the 105.

New-Coin-Photography-Setup---Thoughts?
(half size)
Edited by mgillette
05/08/2015 6:58 pm
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 Posted 05/08/2015  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I guess the next question I should ask is how to compress a file down to a file size fit for posting while maintaining a decently large pixel size on screen. A topic for another thread perhaps?!


This is your thread. You can ask anything you want here.

A capable postprocessing program - a must on the learning list of any coin photographer, sorry - will easily downsize and compress a coin image to post here. I have no trouble reaching 250kb-ish at 1000px diameter without compromising apparent quality using the Gimp. That will fit into the CCF Uploader.
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 Posted 05/09/2015  09:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EFLargeCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can get Photoshop Elements for less than $50 so I think I'll be getting that. I have seen some amazing results posted here using that program and as I mentioned before I have some experience using Photoshop in the past. I thought the max file size for CCF was 100kb? Up til now I have been using a file resizer that is automatic (select photos to resize, and it just batch processes them). While this makes things go WAY faster it lacks a great deal in terms of controlling the quality of the images. Elements should resolve this issue. I've looked at Gimp but just don't like the UI.

mgillette that is impressive with the 85mm lens. You say you had a close up filter on it? What exactly is that? There are a couple coins where having that kind of zoom would be beneficial to me, but overall I won't need that kind of magnification. But it sure would be nice to have! (Edit: I just looked at this lens, I think it just made my short list of lenses to pick up next. 11" minimum focal length means it's not going to get in the way of lighting!)

Also it appears that tethering is currently lacking options for the D3300, though there are a couple programs that work, but without being able to auto-focus from the application itself, which is a drawback for sure. (Edit: I have found one that works with all features and its free)
Edited by EFLargeCents
05/09/2015 12:57 pm
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 Posted 05/09/2015  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think most of the new Nikons are not able to tether. For some reason Nikon is foresaking the macro crowd by not making the SDKs for new cameras available to developers, and simultaneously not updating the Camera Control Pro 2 software. I'd go for a D810 in a heartbeat if it was supported by CCP2, even having to buy the new version for $200+, but it is not and that makes the camera essentially unusable for studio macro purposes IMO. Most if not all Nikons from D3100 onward have this issue. So while I love my D7100, and it does work on CCP2, it will be the last Nikon I will buy until they start supporting tethering again.

I corresponded with a guy on another forum recently about changing from Nikon to Canon and he ended up buying an XSi. I will paraphrase what he wrote back to me after a few days with the Canon...

"I can't believe I struggled with the Nikon for so long. It is like going from a tricycle to a Ferrari! I haven't even really learned how to use the software yet and it's already so much easier. I can finally see how to focus!"

edited to add: the above was a comment regarding changing from a fairly new Nikon to a 7 year old Canon XSi...

Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Edited by rmpsrpms
05/09/2015 3:56 pm
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 Posted 05/09/2015  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EFLargeCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Digicamcontrol supposedly works with the D3300, as some users have discovered. I can't justify choosing a camera based only on tethering. Not being able to tether is still going to be better than using a point and shoot setup for a host of reasons. I'm so used to pain in post processing right now, I won't notice the difference to something I've never even experienced. With that said, I hope to get digicamcontrol to work. If not, I'll work it out, or someday set up a dedicated rig using an old canon dslr on the super cheap.

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 Posted 05/09/2015  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, the bright side to that lining, EFL, is that you're going to be nailing setups pretty quickly. You'll know instinctively what to set which you can then bracket three exposures (at worst) for and be sure you got the result even if a few seconds' postprocessing is necessary.

To be frank, though, without the ability to focus on something larger than a 3" camera LCD, a bellows setup is probably going to be more of a pain than it's worth. You're probably better off with something that autofocuses despite the extra money.
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