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1837 Lower Canada Half Penny/Un Sou (Doubed Die)

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pattiewhack's Avatar
Canada
1152 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  07:27 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add pattiewhack to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I recently picked this up on ebay UK for I think a pretty good price (£8.50 after shipping). When I inspected it under a loupe I noticed some strong doubling on the reverse side. At least I think it is doubling? It affects mainly the lettering and also the area around the man's feet.

What do you guys think? Is this a doubled die/known variety or just an error piece? Did I do alright for the money?

1837-Lower-Canada-Half-Penny/Un-Sou-Doubed-Die

1837-Lower-Canada-Half-Penny/Un-Sou-Doubed-Die

1837-Lower-Canada-Half-Penny/Un-Sou-Doubed-Die

1837-Lower-Canada-Half-Penny/Un-Sou-Doubed-Die

1837-Lower-Canada-Half-Penny/Un-Sou-Doubed-Die

Thanks!
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AgHoarder's Avatar
Canada
818 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  07:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgHoarder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice coin, you did well for that price. Definitely some doubling there and the V lower than top I. Not sure of the scarcity but I'm positive somebody here would know a lot more. Here is a link showing that "V over top I".
http://www.coinsandcanada.com/token...-1837&id=102
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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  07:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like Machine Doubling, but it's an attractive looking token.
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  07:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like Machine Doubling to me too, especially on "sou" where it is reduced.
New Member
Canada
10 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add carpman98 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a re-cut die.
Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add colonialtokens to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

This token is listed by Charlton as LC8A2.
Charlton notes that Doctor Courteau identified sub varieties 2-2l H.
'H' is Charlton's abbreviation for Courteau's work on Habitant tokens.
Dr. Courteau identified twelve different varieties (2, 2a, 2b, 2c, 2d,
2f, 2g, 2h, 2I, 2j, 2k, and 2l) which have been combined under the
generic Charton LC8A2 umbrella.

Your token is Courteau variety 2d, to wit:

Obv. The right ceriph of V is perfect, but a small defect occurs at
lower part of right branch of this letter. Top and bottom of S in BAS
of equal size. Right foot of A a trifle higher than that of N. Generally
found either with one or two or three die-cracks, but that from border to
man;s right foot is the most noticeable.
Rev. Perfect F in HALF. A dot under K in TOKEN, small defect connecting
ribbon to letter Y. Same as No. 1n. R-2.

Dr. Courteau's rarity scale is from 1-10, with 1 being as common as mud, and
10 being as rare as hen's teeth.

Additional info concerning the above, Dr. Courteau's reference to the perfect V
is understood from the grouping to be lower than the N, but the serif itself is
not defective as others within the grouping. Some varieties are found having
inverted 'S's' in either BAS or SOU, or both. The cant or tilt of the 1st A in
CANADA varies among the varieties; on some the Stand is on-line with the stand
of the N, other are canted above the N. The 'F' in HALF is either perfect, half-
cut or double-cut. This is in regards to the horizontal cross-bar. Some cross-bars
are plain (perfect). Others shew a vertical line transecting the cross-bar (mid way
betwixt the Upright of the letter and the vertical of the cross bar). Half-cut indicates
only the upper section of the vertical line is present, double-cut indicates the vertical
line shews above and below the horizontal of the cross-bar).

...there are other terms Dr. Courteau uses, but are not germane to your variety.

I would grade your token EF 40. Nice piece. Fair price.

On an aside, Machine Doubling is prevalent among this series and has no commands no premium.

doug

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AgCoinAu's Avatar
Canada
3049 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AgCoinAu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
excuse my ignorance but is hub doubling the same as Machine Doubling... if not whats the difference?

The token is REALLY nice... I like it!!
Valued Member
Canada
496 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  6:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billfrak to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome carpman ,how's life in the east? Always nice t
to get Doug's opinion
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chequer's Avatar
Canada
4227 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2015  7:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@agcoinau they aren't the same. For an explanation on Machine Doubling and hub doubling check this site:

http://doubleddie.com/144801.html

That link should go to "worthless doubling" such as MD. Collectors generally don't collect it because it isn't specific to the die, it's just a mechanical error. It's well worth reading through everything.
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