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Copper Coin For Identification

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 5 / Views: 2,689Next Topic  
Valued Member

Canada
53 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2015  07:03 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add arok to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi,

Does this item remind you anything?

It was sold to me as a French coin.
However with such extensive tear and wear on it I can neither read the inscription nor match the image against any other French coin, which I can find online.
The coin is relatively small with the size of about 17mm and apparently made from copper.

Thanks


Copper-Coin-For-Identification
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  1:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know if I'll be able to convince everyone of what I think this is.

In the obverse legend, we can make out the letters I'm followed by what I think is a P. The abbreviation IMP is for Imperator, so this coin is in the name of an emperor. France only had kings.
Preceding and separated from the I is a V. Assuming the V stands alone, and is not the last letter of an abbreviated empire (though no such empire's name comes to mind), there is one copper coin with a legend that fits, CARO (or CA, or KAROL) D G V IMP HISP REX: the korte (or courte), of the Spanish Netherlands, one of the earliest copper coinages of Europe (starting in 1543), minted only by the Spanish monarch Charles V. The reverse of the korte is quite distinctive, and I believe we can see the twining forked tail of the rampant lion, and the twisted-rope styled border:

Copper-Coin-For-Identification

Copper-Coin-For-Identification
Edited by philadelphian
06/25/2015 6:25 pm
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Circus's Avatar
United States
3079 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Circus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would have to agree with you on the rope and tail in your first photo
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Phil, I agree.
But Napoleon called himself emperor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charl...oman_Emperor

If the mintmark should be visible:
Van Gelder en Hoc No 198:
198.1 Brabant (Antwerp): hand CA(ROLVS)-D-G-V-IMP-HISP-REX
198.1a no date,
198.1b with date 1543-1549, 1551, 1553-1556
198.2a Brabant (Maastricht): star CAROLVS-D-G-RO-IM-H no date (period 1549-1556)
198.2b idem: star CA-D-G-V-IMP-HIS-REX dates 1548-1553, 1555
198.3a Gelderland (Nijmegen): cross CAROLVS-D-G-ROM-IM(P)-HIS-R(EX) no date (period 1546-1556)
198.3b idem: cross CA-D-G-V-IMP-HISP-REX dates 1550 and 1555
198.4a Flanders (Bruges): lily CAROLVS-D-G-ROM-IM-HI(S-R) no date (period 1543-1556)
198.4b idem: lily CA-D-G-V-ROM-IMP-HIS(P)-REX dates 1541-1545, 1547-1553.

http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/in...opic=15782.0
http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces42350.html
Edited by Petrus
06/25/2015 6:25 pm
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philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Absolutely, Petrus. I really was going to say "France only had kings until Napoleon," then explain why the coin looked pre-Napoleonic to me, but I cut it short. Thanks for the breakdown on the varieties!
Edited by philadelphian
06/25/2015 6:33 pm
Valued Member
Canada
53 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2015  09:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arok to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am convinced.
Almost
This 'Almost' is caused by the following maybe minor observations:
From all the corresponding coin images, which I found online so far
- I can't exactly match the form of the tail with my coin. It looks as if its lion has an extra 5th paw
- The crown of my coin is less sharp than on the online images
- The size of online coins reported to be 19-20 mm while my coin has 17 mm diameter.

Still, there is too many other matching attributes which make me believing that this attribution is right.

As a side note, I think I can distinguish 'REX' in inscription so it leaves us with the following sub-types
198.1 Brabant (Antwerp): hand CA(ROLVS)-D-G-V-IMP-HISP-REX
198.2b idem: star CA-D-G-V-IMP-HIS-REX dates 1548-1553, 1555
198.3b idem: cross CA-D-G-V-IMP-HISP-REX dates 1550 and 1555
198.4b idem: lily CA-D-G-V-ROM-IMP-HIS(P)-REX dates 1541-1545, 1547-1553.
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