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Pillar of the Community

Canada
1221 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  1:07 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Hounddog Bill to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
...... effectively treats anything not PMG / PCGS as RAW NOTES.

I picked this up from discussion on another site and thought I'd ask here for everyones thought's on this. Is it going to make any difference to ebay? I'm definitely not liking it.

While LOTs are not affected by this new rule, anything else must comply.

Basically if its not PMG or PCGS, you can NOT list anything regarding grade in the description or picture or title. (see bolded section below)

Graded paper currency and approved grading companies
A graded note is one that has received a numeric grade (Choice Uncirculated 64 or Very Choice New 64 for example) from a currency grading company. This numeric grade can be included in the title, description, or item specifics of the listing only if the paper currency has been graded by a company that has been found by us to meet certain minimum objective criteria.
Single notes listed in the Coins & Paper Money > Paper Money: US or Coins & Paper Money > Paper Money: World with a starting bid price, reserve price, or Buy It Now price of $2,500 or more must receive a numeric grade from an approved grading company, and the numeric grade must be included in the listing. This requirement doesn't apply to collections, lots, or sets listed within the Coins & Paper Money > Paper Money: US or Coins & Paper Money > Paper Money: World.
Approved grading companies:

Paper Money Guaranty (PMG)

Professional Currency Grading Service (PCGS Currency)

Criteria for approved grading companies
To be an approved grading service on ebay, the grading company must, at minimum, meet the following objective criteria:

The service has graded at least 100,000 pieces of currency.

The service provides a live, online & accurate population report of graded currency.

At least one of the company principals should be a member of the Professional Numismatists Guild.

There are at least 2 graders on staff who are considered currency experts within the trade. A currency expert is an individual who has worked as a full-time numismatist (with a specialty in currency) for at least 5 years. Both graders should be members in good standing of the American Numismatic Association ( ANA) and Professional Currency Dealer Association (PCDA).

The service provides a written buyback guarantee for currency later determined to be counterfeit, damaged, repaired, misgraded, or misattributed (not inclusive of mechanical or typographical errors related to the holder itself). This guarantee must apply to ALL notes encapsulated under the brand name of the currency.

Third-party-graded (certified) currency must be encased in a unique, tamper resistant holder with anti-counterfeiting measures (such as a hologram or other method).

The service enables online verification of unique certification numbers.

If a piece of currency isn't graded by one of these grading companies, it's considered raw and must meet the requirements for raw paper currency listings.
A piece of currency graded by a non-approved grading company can be listed, but the numeric grade can't be included in the title, description, or item specifics. You can't include an image of the note in its graded holder if that image shows a grade that is not completely obscured and unreadable on the photo.
We're always looking for companies that meet our grading criteria. Currency grading companies that meet these standards are encouraged to contact us.

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/policies/currstamps.html

Cheers, Bill
Valued Member
Strach-Man's Avatar
Canada
491 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Strach-Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is very interesting for E-Bay to ask for that, I think it will do something but not sure how much it will affect sales on E-Bay.
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Canada
5585 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's really not anything different than only having coins graded by one of the "accepted" TPG's, of which ICCS is not one, to list a grade in the title. They are trying to get rid of the con artists and counterfeiuters. I think it's a good rule, especially since it's got the $2,500 threshold.
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Wade's Avatar
Canada
2781 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  2:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
how long until coins get treated similarly ?
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ChildOfTheWheat's Avatar
United States
5828 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ChildOfTheWheat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So, NGC ANCS ICG, ICCS, etc got thrown under the bus?
EDIT: Just saw the criteria, pretty sure NGC and ANACS meet that!
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Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5393 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ultimately the market will say what Is acceptable and certainly not ebay. Maybe ebay instead of running around like a half furry fox in a forest fire and trying to dictate the coin and currency market ,should look after their Sellers and start dealing in a firmer way with the Chinese counterfeits that are ruining the hobby.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like it. The $2.5K starting point won't affect the large majority of non-PMG/PCGS auctions.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1221 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hounddog Bill to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure how it effects the US sellers but for Canadian sellers the notes they have to sell that are certified by BCS or CCCS can not include a grade or show a picture of the grade. Now the buyer has to guess the grade from pictures taken through the holder ( impossible to grade any note under these conditions ).

Here's the part I don't like, Quote from above:
If a piece of currency isn't graded by one of these grading companies, it's considered raw and must meet the requirements for raw paper currency listings.
A piece of currency graded by a non-approved grading company can be listed, but the numeric grade can't be included in the title, description, or item specifics. You can't include an image of the note in its graded holder if that image shows a grade that is not completely obscured and unreadable on the photo.
We're always looking for companies that meet our grading criteria. Currency grading companies that meet these standards are encouraged to contact us.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16809 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can still mention the grade, just not the Sheldon-style "numeric grade".
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Wade's Avatar
Canada
2781 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I like it. The $2.5K starting point won't affect the large majority of non-PMG/PCGS auctions.


unless I'm reading it wrong, yes it will. if its not in one of the authorized TPG holders then it is considered raw and you cant mention the grade at all (in fact you have to cover up any grade shown by any non authorized TPG'er)

if its over $2500 it MUST be in one of the authorized TPG holders or you can't list it.
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inconnu's Avatar
Canada
93 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2015  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add inconnu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It will just require sellers to be more creative. This 1966 silver dollar has been graded by a third party grading service that is not recognized by ebay as mintstate. The grade on the Sheldon scale is the same as the last 2 numbers on the date. Their "catch" words will be NCG, ICCS, ANACS, etc. and any number in the listing that will flag the listing.

Rob
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Wade's Avatar
Canada
2781 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2015  09:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm wondering if you could pair a graded (non authorized TPG) with a junk note and call it a 'lot' ...

or are we not allowed to mention/show grades in lots as well? (ie are all lots considered 'raw')
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M_d_in_guy's Avatar
Canada
1049 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2015  10:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add M_d_in_guy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I'm understanding this right, the maximum ceiling on any raw coin is 2500.00, regardless of it's potential worth, or even appraised or book value?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1461 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2015  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheCoinHunter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think ebay should worry more about having a reasonably effective mechanism for monitoring and removing counterfeit and fraudulent coins instead of worrying about which TPG should be approved. Although I do like the way it's setup right now.
Valued Member
Canada
108 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2015  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jello_g to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Anybody else receive an email blast from PMG, "A letter from Mark Salzberg"?

Mark is apparently the chairman of PMG. In the letter, he gloats of ebay taking a leadership stance, promotes his TPG as the only one worthy, and pushes for the day to have the same deal for coins. blah blah blah
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4589 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2015  10:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coins are already treated the same, it's just that nobody follows the rules. Go read 'em... http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies...stamps.html#
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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