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1803 Draped Bust Large Cent, Well Worn, Grade/Opinions?

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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  01:18 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This coin set me back $15. Whether I overpaid or underpaid is not quite clear to me. Good deal or waste of $15?

Looks like a small date-large fraction (?), environmental damage (porous), perhaps old cleaning. I'm thinking FR-2, how about you?

Seller pics, not like there's a whole lot to see. But it fills a hole for me for less than the cost of a good lunch, so I think it'll do for now.

1803-Draped-Bust-Large-Cent,-Well-Worn,-Grade/Opinions?

1803-Draped-Bust-Large-Cent,-Well-Worn,-Grade/Opinions?
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  01:42 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a Lg Date/Sm Fraction. Details might make About Good and for $15 it looks pretty good to me.

Just for kicks have a look at this one that's a rare variety: http://coins.ha.com/itm/large-cents...Lot=1x=0&y=0
ANA #R3154474
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Aahz's Avatar
United States
177 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  01:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aahz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd say you're right about FR-02 for the obverse, but there's so much central detail on the reverse I'd want to give it an AG-03.

As for attribution, I'm by no means proficient in attributing large cents. But doing some comparisons, the 3 in the date doesn't have the small date look (the point at the top should be further right than the curve at the bottom). And there's something about the word "CENT" on the reverse - the gap between E and N looks larger than normal. I don't know what to think of it.

But for $15? Decent, whatever the attribution.
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  02:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Large date variety has a serif on top of the 3's top bar at the left end, small date have a flat top 3. This looks like a flat top. Also, the reverse 1 in 1/x00 has a long bar extending to the left from the top of the 1, small frac cents have a much shorter bar.

I'm going to guess S-260 based on the reverse. I have Penny Whimsy but it's 1:30 am so I will look tomorrow.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
07/31/2015 02:27 am
Valued Member
Aahz's Avatar
United States
177 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  08:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aahz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
S-260:
1803-Draped-Bust-Large-Cent,-Well-Worn,-Grade/Opinions?
1803-Draped-Bust-Large-Cent,-Well-Worn,-Grade/Opinions?
(images from coinfacts.com, courtesy Superior Galleries)

Yours is definitely not S-260. Note the orientation of the 3 above, with the knob almost touching the 0. Your coin has a very wide gap between the 0 and the knob on the 3.

But what about this?
1803-Draped-Bust-Large-Cent,-Well-Worn,-Grade/Opinions?
This is listed on ebay as a Large Date, Large Fraction, although it is attributed as an S-261. The gap between the 0 and the 3 looks the same, and even with your slightly-out-of-focus image, I think I can make out the die crack on yours between the 8 and the 0, same as this one.

Then again, you have coin in hand, whereas I'm looking at slightly out-of-focus images. Can you get some sharper photos?

Nevertheless, still well worth the $15.
Edited by Aahz
07/31/2015 08:53 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
3156 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  08:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jerryc39 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
not bad for 15 bucks. FR2 seems about right.
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  12:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like small date large fraction. Flat top 3, and pointed 1 on fraction. F02, and $15 is a decent price.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess $15 is OK. Definitely FR-02 at best.
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
United States
4337 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
$15 to own a 212 year old piece of Americana? Especially in the form of American Coinage from a time where that cent might have been rattling around in a founding father's pocket on his way to the pub. I would pay $15 all day for this one.
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 Posted 07/31/2015  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's an OK buy for $15, but for the heck of me I can't figure out why you would buy it. You could wait until you had a little more money and by a VG or so that you would probably enjoy a more. I refuse to buy coins in this condition unless they are an extreme rarity.
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paralyse's Avatar
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12057 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Because of what dsfreeworld just stated so eloquently.

I've got a number of 3-digit and a very few 4-digit coins to look pretty in slabs, and I've got many, many more sub-3-digit coins to fill my albums and look pretty in 2x2's. 80% of my collection is responsible for perhaps 20% of its value.

I find myself looking at the album coins quite a bit more often. I could buy a slabbed 1803 large cent in XF or better if one was on the market, but then it would just sit in my safe in its slab box and get ignored most of the time. This coin, I can actually take it, put it in my hand, play with it, show it to little kids, and start conversations with it without giving my insurance agent a case of the scares, or putting a "Rob Me" target on my back when I show it to someone. Who knows where it's been? It must have been very well-loved to get to such a state. Perhaps it was a Penny Whist coin and Sheldon played it when a 1803 Small Date/Large Fraction was called. You never know.

My slabs have their places, and my pocket pieces and raw coins and lowballs and culls and "why would you buy it?" coins have theirs. I have a 1966 Mustang and a 2003 Mach 1 Mustang. Sure, I could have had the 1966 restored to some insane level of "better than new", but what would be the point? So I could stare at it and trailer it to car shows? My Mach 1 is a 30k mile survivor, and I drive the wheels off it every day to work. It's not an investment-quality car like the 1966 could be if I dumped $20k more into it, but it gets people's attention, kids love to talk about it, it's a great conversation starter, and I can enjoy it without worrying about it dropping 50% of its value because I got a rock chip in the hood paint. The 1966 is driver-quality restored, 66k mile 3 owner survivor and it gets the wheels driven off it when weather permits (no A/C in a Texas summer is brutal.) I'll leave "expensive and pretty" for slab boxes and car shows, and have very few reservations at all about letting someone drive the '66 or hold a well-worn 1803 large cent.

That should pretty much sum up why I would spend $15 to buy that coin.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
07/31/2015 10:54 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3156 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  11:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jerryc39 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like your logic.
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Salvatorparadise's Avatar
United States
28 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  11:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Salvatorparadise to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
well put
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Aahz's Avatar
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177 Posts
 Posted 07/31/2015  11:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Aahz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well said, sir.

It's that same reasoning why my son, TypeCoin, at one point wore a Gordian IIII antoninianus on a necklace. It was a silver-dipped fourie with a contemporary hole made by a Roman square nail. He could have kept it in a flip or had it encased, but he got far more mileage out of it from people asking what it was and him explaining to them that it was a 1700-year-old coin from the end of the Roman Empire. If he had kept it at home, there's no telling how many fewer people he would have met or how much less accomplished of a collector he would be now.

I withdraw all of my other comments about your coin, except for "well worth the $15."
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Joseph7420's Avatar
Canada
11922 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2015  12:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joseph7420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's either FR-2 or AG-3. I'm leaning more towards FR-2.
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
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36738 Posts
 Posted 08/01/2015  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
FR-2
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