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1802 Large Cent Error

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mdpmedia's Avatar
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3546 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2015  05:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On another note I would like some thoughts, however, on why the indentation between the green arrows on a significantly more worn coin is so predominant while being virtually absent on the MS 61BN coin. I can't envision a progressive wear pattern like this one.

Also comment on why the PCGS coin has the upper elephant trunk bending down (between the black arrows) almost touching the upper forehead while the worn coin continues straight without curving downward and ends halfway up on the forward most curl.

Could there be something funny going on here for a buyer to be leery of in light of the fact that an R3 typically means 'approximately' only 300 - 400 'known' specimens exist?

1802-Large-Cent-Error
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 Posted 08/30/2015  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Different die state.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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4418 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2015  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I can't envision a progressive wear pattern like this one.


I once owned a similar die wear progression that was evident on a variety of patriotic Civil War tokens (Fuld # 47/332). I was however never able to locate an example, wherein evidence of the die break was totally absent, but I did have some specimens that were extremely prominent. It was a cool mini-set of sorts, being eight pieces in all.

Very subtle examples of this die break are easily found. Here's a pic of a more extreme example, late die wear state, of the obverse die #47:

1802-Large-Cent-Error

Here's an earlier die state of Fuld #47:

1802-Large-Cent-Error

Might a similar wear progression, not as stark mind you, not be possible for S-239? Gives me pause ...
Edited by ExoGuy
08/30/2015 12:04 pm
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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23522 Posts
 Posted 08/30/2015  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I can't envision a progressive wear pattern like this one.


They all show die state progression, unless the crack/break destroys the die. It's not wear, it's increasing damage.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 08/30/2015  12:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It's not wear, it's increasing damage.


Does the die not evidence more wear with increased use, resulting in more metal flow into the stressed area, so to speak?

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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 08/31/2015  02:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The OP coin is a later die state, The dies cracked and the area between the cracks began to sink into the die face creating the raised "trunk" on the coin. On the MS coin the upper crack is well developed but the lower crack is still forming. On the OP coin both cracks are well formed and the piece of metal between them has sunk.

As to how much wear the dies had, this die cracked very early in its use and developed the more severe cracks fairly quickly. The die probably didn't last long enough for any really noticeable wear to develop. Tt was retired due to failure, not wear.
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