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Ottoman Silver Coins Struck In Tarabalus Gharb (Tripoli, Lib

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Pillar of the Community
KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2008  3:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These are beautiful coins...I really know nothing about Ottoman coinage, so it was fun to learn something here.
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Silver Gorilla's Avatar
286 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2008  3:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silver Gorilla to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes Indeed there beautiful coins, And thanks for the Compliments Kurts, I guess now, we or I will just have to wait until Sap sees them.
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pls's Avatar
United States
1729 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2008  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi - just wanted to add that I am in possession of a coin somewhat similar to the one pictured in "03.jpg" in the first post by Silver Gorilla. In fact, I've joined this forum as a result of my search to identify the coin. I obtained the coin when I purchased 20 uncleaned Roman coins from an ebay dealer and realized right away that it wasn't Roman after soaking and scrubbing it a bit. It is about 2.5 mm in diameter and thinner than a dime. It has been "holed" to be worn on a string and is pretty well-worn and tarnished in spots, making it difficult to read. On what I'm guessing is the obverse at about 2:00 is the design similar to ones I've seen in 03.jpg and elsewhere (which is what led me to believe that this coin is from Tripoli), the one that reminds me of two hearts superimposed over each other, and next to it is the larger object seen in the above coin that reminds me of a lobster with one oversized claw. Anyone know what these stylized objects are? On the other side (reverse?) is Arabic script and what appears to be a date at the bottom, luckily opposite of the bored hole. I cannot quite read the date at this time - may need to do a little more careful cleaning before I refer to Yeoman's "Modern World Coins" (I have Editions 4 and 5, which contain Arabic date charts).

Are there any other good sites besides those mentioned here on which I can do more research? Any suggestions? Is this little coin worth three figures as apparently are some of the others mentioned here? Do I possess a clever forgery that somehow got mixed with the Roman "cleaners" that I obtained? Just what do I have?
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16850 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2008  10:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi pls, and welcome.

It depends on what exactly you've got, but neither of the features yo've mentioned are distinctly Libyan. If you can post a pic, that would be most helpful.

Quote:
the obverse at about 2:00 is the design...that reminds me of two hearts superimposed over each other...

I believe this is just a decorative element, and doesn't "mean" anything. If anything, it's a remnant of the old Turkic tamgha, a "cattle brand" tribal symbol used by the ancestors of the Ottomans prior to their conquest of Turkey. I don't think it's use was limited to Tripoli; many earlier Ottoman coins feature this or a similar heart-swirly-thing.

Quote:
...and next to it is the larger object seen in the above coin that reminds me of a lobster with one oversized claw...

This is the toughra, the signature of the Ottoman Sultan, made so ornate that even someone expert at reading Arabic has difficulty deciphering it. The Wikipedia article currently has an excellent animation on actually translating a toughra, but for all practical intents and purposes, all toughras look the same at first glance. The toughra was used on coins issued throughout the Empire, not just in Libya.

S_G's coins are confirmed as being Tripolitanian by the mintname, written beneath the toughra (in the case of coin 03): Tarabalus Gharb, Arabic for "Tripoli of the West".

Your coin may also predate your Yeoman catalogues; Ottoman coins of this style go back to the 1700's, even the 1600's.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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pls's Avatar
United States
1729 Posts
 Posted 07/01/2008  10:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the excellent information, Sap. I'll try to scan the coin and post it later, but as I said, it's worn and tarnished and may not scan well - not to mention the fact that my scanner doesn't do color images very well. This little piece of silver is turning into an education of the Ottoman Empire, an important part of history that I don't recall studying in school at all (not that I remember much from 50 years ago, lol).
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pls's Avatar
United States
1729 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2008  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are obverse and reverse views of the Ottoman coin I'm mentioned above, along with FDR for comparison:

Image: Ottoman-Silver-Coins-Struck-In-Tarabalus-Gharb-Tripoli,-Lib Otto1.jpg
53.96 KB

Image: Ottoman-Silver-Coins-Struck-In-Tarabalus-Gharb-Tripoli,-Lib Otto2.jpg
48.53 KB

I'm so ig'nant that I don't know which side is which. In fact, as I've also said, this little coin is proving to be an education source probably a lot more valuable than what it's worth in terms on cash: I had to do some tweaking with the scanner to get it in focus (hint: make the scanner believe it's a photo, not a document), reduce it with Photoshop in size to fit here; and I'll probably have to learn some Arabic, at least numerals, before it's all over!
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16850 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2008  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The side with the toughra is normally considered the "obverse". The mint-name on yours is on the other side, and it's Constantinople, Turkey. Looks like a small silver para of the 18th century - something like this one on Zeno.ru which, as you can see, has been holed in similar fashion.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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pls's Avatar
United States
1729 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2008  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pls to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cool! And thanks so much for your expertise, Sap. Now that I know what I have, I can do some research on it. I believe I see a date on the reverse, but at the moment I can see only three digits. I'll have to get out the magnifiers and see what pops up. The remaining mystery: What was this little coin doing in a group of Roman cleaners? Only thing I can think of is that his Serbian source found it buried above a Roman coin cache, and it just got mixed in at the site. Anyway, what fun, and thanks again!
Edited by pls
07/02/2008 9:40 pm
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