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'22 Peace Dollar; Multi-Error + Unreported Clash?

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durkastani's Avatar
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452 Posts
 Posted 08/29/2015  8:19 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add durkastani to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This 1st picture is the clash I couldn't find.

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

See on the overlay where the hat crosses the olive branch?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?


'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 08/30/2015  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm leaning towards thinking the reverse feature is a die gouge rather than a clash artifact, or perhaps a die break maybe caused by a clash. Here's why:

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

The feature has dimensions in both the x and y axes. It has a "width," which a clashing artifact will only have if the clashed feature has width, like a letterstroke or something. In this case, the entire cap is involved - all one should see on a clash is an edge with a depression to one side, like the neck clash at the shoulder shows only the demarcation line of the neck.

So, the next step in the attribution process would be to learn which reverse this coin has.
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MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 08/30/2015  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is that a collar clash under Peace?


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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 08/30/2015  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is that a collar clash under Peace?


Yes, which makes this attribution somewhat easier. That was going to be a later step in the process.
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durkastani's Avatar
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 Posted 08/30/2015  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add durkastani to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you look at the picture following my overlay, to the area I point out, you will see the area noted actually does have width. It actually is deeper than the fields. I'm unfamiliar with what a collar clash is! Teach me! :-)!
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 Posted 08/30/2015  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add durkastani to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is that where the "teeth" from the edge are imprinted up on the rim?
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 Posted 08/30/2015  4:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add durkastani to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Anyway, from the clash over the eagle's shoulder I was thinking 2BD or 2R2 but my coin doesn't have the die markers for either of those. It does have a polish mark above the top ray over the tail feather but it has less collar clashing than that one as mine doesn't extend under the mountains. 2DB = no, 2DC = no, 2DD = no. I have polish marks similar to 2DY but what about the doubled 1, 2, Y? What about the other clash marks and the doubled rock? This VAM stuff is tricky!
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srs77's Avatar
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 Posted 08/30/2015  5:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yes but it is fun... :)
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durkastani's Avatar
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 Posted 08/31/2015  12:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add durkastani to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree srs77. Any opinion about which best fits this coin? I have to admit that I'm stumped but I'm really a rookie at this. I have three '22 Peace dollars that I bought a few months ago and am just now digging into the meat! What a gold mine of individuality for one coin type! I'm hooked! Next Peace dollar that I can afford is getting bought ha-ha! SsuperDdave, you were saying that the collar clash was going to be a later step in the attribution process but then never elaborated! Any more tips?
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srs77's Avatar
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 Posted 08/31/2015  07:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add srs77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This one's a toughie, for me at least. Let me dig some as well.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 08/31/2015  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If you look at the picture following my overlay, to the area I point out, you will see the area noted actually does have width. It actually is deeper than the fields.


I'm not sure we're actually communicating here. The gouge under DOLLAR does not appear in your pics below your overlay, and the fact that it has width proves it's not a clash.

A collar clash happens when, for whatever reason, the edge of the die comes into contact with the collar. The reeding on the collar impresses the edge of the die, and that's transferred onto coins subsequently struck. Like die cracks, collar clashes can wear off the die, so although what's there has to be a perfect match, it doesn't all have to be there.

We're operating at a serious deficiency to attribute this one because there are no full-face images; I can't even tell if it's a B1 or B2 reverse as a result. I'll assume it's a B2 reverse so we can include the 2D series as a possibility.

Another consideration is, the fact that this coin is clashed does not exclude the possibilities on VAMworld which aren't clashed. The fact that clashing isn't recorded for a given die pair could mean it hasn't been recorded yet. So this clashing may or may not be relevant to attribution.

Then again, the collar clash might not be recorded for the VAM yet, either.
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durkastani's Avatar
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 Posted 08/31/2015  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add durkastani to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, here are some full pictures of my coin.

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?
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durkastani's Avatar
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 Posted 08/31/2015  7:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add durkastani to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Holy moly here's another clash I missed. Just below Liberty's bun is another concave surface. This coin has so much character!

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?
Edited by durkastani
08/31/2015 7:17 pm
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durkastani's Avatar
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 Posted 08/31/2015  9:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add durkastani to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does this look like doubling of the R in trust?

'22-Peace-Dollar;-Multi-Error-+-Unreported-Clash?
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 Posted 09/01/2015  07:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add durkastani to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it's a 2U1
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 Posted 09/01/2015  7:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add durkastani to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After studying it closely, I think that what I originally believed to be doubling of the rock the eagle is standing on is actually a clash from the back side of the "B" in LIBERTY.
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