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 Replies: 22 / Views: 3,111 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
757 Posts |
I know there are some serious buyers here who drop significant money on coins. I am wondering how you would go about this situation. I am looking at a couple of very high dollar raw coins and a drop in grade could be a tens of thousands of dollar mistake. I am at one grade and the seller is at least one grade higher. I know it could be a selling technique trying to get every penny out of the deal, but it could be his honest opinion and he's sticking to his guns. Would it be out of line to offer to send them in and pay to have them graded with a deal set and of if it makes x grade I'll pay this? On the other hand if it grades even higher It could make him want even more and I've done all the leg work to make him more money. What to do?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Rock, meet hard place. How much is this coin being offered for? What coin is it? Can we get pics to better help you? My rule of thumb is if you dont know enough about a particular series or coin to be confident in the purchase (especially a big one) then it is not the right time to buy it.
That said, your thought of paying for grading is a bad one. Are you going to put the coin in third party escrow with a signed letter of intent. If not don't do it and what seller would do all that anyway... bottom line is you need to know what you're buying better than the other guy and be confident about it. That is how scores are made aside from dumb luck
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
757 Posts |
It's a multiple coin deal. He has 2 1895 O Morgan dollars, a 1884 S Morgan dollar, and a 1873 cc Seated Liberty dollar. Like I said higher end coins. I do have a friend who is a higher end dealer who I could probably take with me to get a 3rd opinion. With these types of coins a point difference in grade could be a huge loss or gain. He knows the value and it's not like I want to rip someone off, but on the same token I don't want to burn myself. I didn't think about taking pictures. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Well then, yes, you have a decision to make but with coins like this and a good chunk of change on the line, I would hesitate to give you any affirmative advice on this without good, crisp photos. Is there anyway you can go back and try to get some? The 84s date for instance is common in xf and lower grades, gets a little pricey in AU and gets stupid in MS. So, AU examples often have cleaned surfaces to make them look BU as its a 10 fold or more price difference
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
If it's a multiple coin deal then you have to think like a dealer and not a collector. Visit a couple of LCSs and find out what they would pay for the set and how they would deal with the questionable grade.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
757 Posts |
I'm gonna head back and look again i'll get some good pictures too. I'll ask a couple of local dealers what they would offer and hopefully get one to tag along with me.
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
What are the grades according to the dealer?
Definitely take some good photos and post them up here for opinions.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
757 Posts |
The one 95 O he was at 60, the other he was on the fence between 63 and 64 and proof like. He is close, but at those grades it's hard not second guess yourself. I was thinking his 60 was a slider. if you sent it in enough you could probably get that 60, but that's a lot of time and effort. The other one I was at 61 and not proof like. They are both very nice though. The 84S I was basically gonna have that as a freebie, so I didn't give it a real good look, definitely in AU territory. The 73CC is VF and I agree with him on that. It's those 2 morgans that are killing me.
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
95-O in 63/64PL would be huge. PCGS only graded 3 total in that range. I'm highly skeptical.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Don't take a dealer with you! Heck, just call dealers and just ask what they would you pay for a 95o in 62 and 64 and a 73cc seated in vf 30. That's it. Definatly don't take them or even tell them what's up. WE are your dealer  And I agree with dave so Go get us pics asap Edited by Cascade
09/27/2015 10:13 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1314 Posts |
You needn't take a dealer with you, just look at a grey sheet and knock off whatever pecentage a dealer might, and you will know what a dealer would pay. As long as you are confident about your grading skills, you guys are too far apart. Walk away. If you aren't confident about your grading skills, walk away and go to an auction house and pay for a certified coin. This could be a very expensive lesson if you cannot measure a PL's reflective capacities.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
757 Posts |
I've dealt with this seller in the past and we have a pretty good business relationship. He has been buying, hoarding, and flipping coins, jewelry, art, historical documents, ect since the 70's. He has shown me stuff out of his personal collection that would make your jaw drop. We have a mutual respect for each others grading, but with 1 point being thousands of dollars I feel it would be best to get that extra opinion. I don't want to insult him and burn a bridge to what I know he still has tucked away. Sometimes giving a little will gain you a lot in the end.
I was hoping someone here would have had a similar deal and I could learn how they did it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Quote:
I was hoping someone here would have had a similar deal and I could learn how they did it. They did it either by posting good pics here for a consensus OR they had the experience and confidence mixed with a little guts to pull the trigger themselves. I have an idea. If you do have a closer relationship with him ask him if you can get a consensus grade from ccf. Have him check out the thread and ask if he will posdibly sell based on what we grade it as. But if we grade them higher it may work against you. This is a tricky situation. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
If 1 point is worth thousands of dollars then the coin needs to be certified. Don't quibble with someone over a $2000 MS63 vs. a $5000 MS64 if they are raw coins. Unless you are Bill Gates or Warren Buffet that is ridiculous. By all means post some pictures here if you want concrete opinions but reading a few sentences in your first post was enough to convince me you could very well loss your shorts.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
Sometimes you just have to walk away. Sellers ALWAYS over grade raw coins. They are thinking best case scenario. Tell him straight up what you feel the grade is and offer him retail at that grade. He is not going to sell them to you at your more realistic grade and at greysheet. Don't be antagonistic,confrontational or insulting, just explain to him confidently and authoritatively, that you grade the coins at "this" and you feel the comfortable at this price. Explain to him that if he got them graded at his estimate, you of course, would be more than happy to adjust your offer accordingly. If he disagrees, there is no guilt in walking away from a bad deal. Don't think twice about it.
He maybe able to convince some other sucker non-learned person to believe his grade, only to have PCGS grade it at your MS-60. He makes his money, don't begrudge him that. Just make sure the "sucker" isn't you.
EDIT: Raw coins need to be graded "in hand". People here are knowledgeable, but none of the real knowledgeable people would be willing to cost you several thousand dollars by attempting to accurately grade a high value coin from a picture on a forum.
Edited by denco7
09/28/2015 11:10 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
757 Posts |
If the sucker was me they would be in my hand right now.
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Replies: 22 / Views: 3,111 |
Posted 09/27/2015 7:39 pm
