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Japanese Trade Dollar Obverse Die

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Jamaica
12 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2015  6:31 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jam to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Have anyone see the Obverse Die of this Japanese Trade dollar?

Japanese-Trade-Dollar-Obverse-Die
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0xDA71D's Avatar
United States
1215 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2015  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 0xDA71D to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have not.

And uncancelled is truly unique...if it were real

The authenticity of the die is the caveat.

Since many oriental coins are counterfeited in China, there is a high chance that this could be one of thousands of fake dies used to strike equally fake coins.

I think an expert in Japanese Trade dollars needs to weigh in.
Edited by 0xDA71D
10/15/2015 6:37 pm
New Member
Jamaica
12 Posts
 Posted 10/15/2015  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I got this from Heritage Auction and they have authenticate this die
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Numisma's Avatar
United States
4963 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2015  02:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's amazing! I would love to own an uncancelled die.
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Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2015  10:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A big batch of such dies appeared from China more than 5 years ago. As far as I know, no genuine dies ever got out of Japan mint.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
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Parklane64's Avatar
United States
2668 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2015  3:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Parklane64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I got this from Heritage Auction and they have authenticate this die


Really?

Ask the Japanese. I guess.
New Member
Jamaica
12 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2015  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's some history of this Die

This coin Die was initially bought by an Canadian who lived in Japan and even went to University in Japan many years back. he made some connections in the seafood industry and in coins. At the time he was only collecting coins.

He's primary business right now is seafood export. Coin dealing was born out of sometimes needing to buy large groups of coins to get the few pcs he wanted.

After returning to Canada and working in seafood as well as trading in coins, he was forwarded the auction catalogs from The Ministry of Finance in Tokyo. Of course, these were well known in Japan, but surprisingly not so many outside of Japan were aware of this mass liquidation of mostly gold coins.

There were odds and end including the Trade dollar die, some paper and some silver, but 97.5% of the 3 auctions were gold.

There were 5 primary buyers of this material. While certainly tons of collectors bought 1 or a few pcs, but 5 of them bought huge inventories. Two major Tokyo companies, one of which he eventually bought out, a Germans co and a UK co.

He bought the finest, and until the auctions, unknown SHOWA 5 5 YEN gold coin which graded like the finest 1921 Canadian 5c silver ) as well as over two hundred others pieces. He created markets for this mostly in Europe.

The UK co's material was almost entirely bought out by Heritage which is why for awhile, Heritage consistently offering Meiji era gold in their auctions.

He was fortunate to have created a deep mkt for this material in Geneva and eventually one Tokyo company sold him their inventory. Shortly afterwards, Heritage through Cris and Todd offered him their remaining UK purchases inventory.

He have also consigned many of the better Japanese coins Heritage has sold post Ministry sales. At one time, among his consignments was this very same Trade dollar rev die. He had a reserve on it.

You can go into the Heritage web site. Check under 2009 JANUARY NEW YORK SIGNATURE WORLD COIN AUCTION #3004. It is lot # 21821.

You will see the Trade dollar die. It did not reach his reserve at that sale and He had to do a buy it back .

What's important here in creating an additional sense authencity is that Heritage would never EVER put anything in their auction that is not 100% authentic.

This is were I got in contact with the seller and get this Die
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Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2015  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have to disagree. The surface of this particular die matches a counterfeit die that I have in my collection. Dimension wise, it looks similar to one that I own. More than five years ago, a huge batch appeared on ebay as counterfeiters wanted to sell them for profit. They are mostly cracked etc. Auction houses were affected as well. Of course, they didn't understand the implications of selling such dies but now they have smartened up and you rarely see them these days.

Japanese-Trade-Dollar-Obverse-Die

Despite how elaborate the story is, I remain unconvinced.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
New Member
Jamaica
12 Posts
 Posted 10/16/2015  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the opinions, but I have to standby the believe of Heritage Auctions, because they are one of those big Action House and if I don't believe their expert opinion then I don't know which other expert I could rely on when I'm biding in a Auction.
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