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 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,577 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
A lot of people don't like auctions ( ebay or wherever) in which reserves have been placed and won't even bid on such auctions. I'm ambivalent on them and would like to hear some reasons why they are not liked. To me, if I have a coin for which I paid a certain price and I would like to sell that coin, I'd like to get much, most, or all of my investment returned; I certainly do not want to give the coins away for a pittance. An auction with a reserve would fit my purposes, but I do not understand why someone who otherwise would like such coins would refuse to bid on the auctions simply because they had a reserve. I like the idea of the huge buyers' market of ebay, but I don't like the idea that a sizable part of that market will pass over my auctions simply because they are reserve auctions; I have no concept of the percentages of the market who are inclined to ignore a reserve auction. Corollary to this is whether or not to state the reserve amount in the description. Why not just start out the auction at the reserve rather than start it out much lower (I start all mine at 99 cents)? (There's a lot a variables and qualifications to this question, e.g., expectations of the seller vs. what the coin could realistically bring in.) Contrary to a reserve auction in which a coin won't be sold unless it meets the seller's minimum price, a regular auction with no reserve can be a chancy affair with the price realized often far below what the seller really wants although in my experience, a coin usually sells for its approximate value. I have other opinions and experiences on the topic, but would like to first see how the thread develops. Opinions? Experiences? |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
I only once bought a reserve auction before the message reserve met appeared
Never again because at the end the auction took my money whilst the second bidder was a mile behind me
I never used a buy it right now either
I think the best is to start with your minimum price you will accept
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
We have found that auctions with reserves (and auctions with a higher starting amount) don't do as well as those started very low with no reserve. I think this is due to the feeling that the buyer wants to feel like they're "getting a deal". We have also found that "bids beget bids". This means that an auction that has more bids (and earlier) will tend to get more bids than an auction that doesn't get it's opening bid within the first 2 days of an auction. I think that, once the bidding war has started on a coin, people get caught up in the competition and become willing to pay more for the coin. This could be due to perceived value since someone else wants it. Like it or not, many of the buyers on ebay have chosen not to educate themselves, but they know that a gold coin with an opening bid of $9.95 is a deal that can't be passed up. Before you know it, the bidding is up to melt (usually within the first or second day). After that, you get the people who feel some ownership in the auction bidding against each other. With no reserve, I think the feeling is that each bid may be the final one. One of the advantages of ebay is the lower seller's fees. Since listing fees are based on the opening bid and there is an additional percentage charged for reserves, we have found that it is simply not worth the additional fees to get a lower hammer price for a coin. We have had very few coins that don't sell for the minimum price we have in mind. I don't see much of a difference in bids whether there is a reserve (with the amount stated) or a higher starting price except that reserve auctions have a better chance of getting the opening bid earlier. We have found that neither type of auction tends to get the activity that a low starting bid and no reserve auction gets. This is based on our experience and research. Your mileage may vary.  |
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Valued Member
United States
458 Posts |
As a buyer I have bidded on, have won & have lost items with reserves, also many items that the reserve was never met, which to me at the point I reached my number feel that the reserve is over priced and stop bidding on it. I have also many times used BIN options if it was at my price/budget & or lower than what I was ready to pay. I also when selling use the above tools. Although I do agree with susan, items using reserves can go thru entire process without 1 bid. Without reserves price starting at .99 will always usually get hits, no doubt the bidders are looking cheap and for a bargain. I also have used reserves AND BIN options on same item, which in away gives potential bidders that my reserve is usually below the BIN option...  Edited by CiScO
10/15/2005 10:14 am
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Rest in Peace
 United States
2684 Posts |
What I'm hearing is that psychology plays a major role in auctions, reserve and otherwise, something of which I've counted on in my auctions. As both Susan and CiScO pointed out, if an auction is started very low (99 cents mentioned as an example; I always start all my auctions at 99 cents - they always sell, even the very common coins), there almost always will be bidders trying to get a bargain. And, as Susan said, bidders beget bidders. If they catch the fever, then hopefully they'll keep bidding past what I need and expected.
For those coins in which I absolutely must receive a certain minimum, I'm inclined to start at 99 cents, but with a low unstated reserve (keep them guessing). If the bidding fever is pitched enough, they'll go over the reserve. However, I fear that if I don't have a reserve on a couple coins I want to sell, the fever will cool down and stay down below what I want to realize on the coin. While I could pull an auction if it appears the coin is going to go for far less than I want, this is a bad practice and I don't like to do it (I've never done it on a coin auction although I have done it a couple times when I've listed items for other people and they decided their "antique" wasn't gonna sell with enough zeros after the $ sign). The description is extremely important for a successful auction, reserve or not; open, detailed, and honest descriptions always works for me. Bait the hook with a plump juicy worm instead of a skinny shriveled worm and the fish will fight over the bait.
From my observations, Buy It Now and set price or very high minimum prices don't sell very often, especially on coins. However, I have sniped a few BINs with high minimums which were still good deals; I counted on nobody else bidding on them, the reason for my snipes. Bidding begets bidding and I didn't want to start a trend. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, especially if there is another like-minded person interested in the same coin.
I'd like to hear from people who don't bid on reserve auctions on principle and their reasons why.
Fred
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Valued Member
United States
421 Posts |
I don't avoid them on priciple but I have never met the reserve in any reserve auction I have ever bid in. Now that I don't bid on ebay as much as I did a few years ago, I typically avoid wasting my time on them now. Edited by Stujoe
10/15/2005 8:42 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
I also avoid reserve auctions in which the reserve is unrealistic for the coin. Here's a couple examples: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...m=8343775824(I think the rim dings would cause it to be bodybagged.) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...m=8343192486(I suspect the coin has been dipped; also, it's NNC graded, a giveaway that it's a problem coin.) I have no plans to bid on either. I've got both watched to see what's gonna happen. I'm curious. Alternatively, I've sold a couple coins through reserve auctions in which I set the reserve price at the price for which I purchased the coin, well below market value and sold both coins right at the reserve price. Maybe it's all about expectations: the sellers generally want too much and the buyers want to pay as little as possible. Maybe that's why many/most Buy It Nows and Reserve auctions don't sell. Fred Edited by Morgan Fred
10/16/2005 1:36 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
Sometimes spychology backfires on the novice Somebody posted 8 coins of the same denomiantion but with different years with a buy it now at varying levels of realisticity combined with a reasonably high starting price Only one buy it now sold and all the others got a 1 euro bid The seven coins left all ended on sunday 11 am at EXACT the same time So no sniping from one to the next So I entered two bids one minute before the end The coin I got I was willing to pay 15 % more then I paid The coin I did not get was a big surprise because it went highest in the series If the 7 had not ended at the same time I would have rolled over the bid to the next coin All in all 6 of the 8 coins went way below previous ebay prices |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Hi Fred Reserve auctions are not in my estimation true auctions, This is why I tend to not bid on them,They are definitely not buyer friendly,and are designed to benefit the seller!! I would much rather Bid on an auction with a higher starting bid than one with an unknown starting point . BIN auctions on the other hand, I do look at! if I find what I want at a realistic price I have no problem with doing a BIN, however, I'm a deal seeker, and prefer to wager what I'm will to pay against the other guy, so my main interest in ebay auctions are the real .99 starting bid auctions that end at a time I can be by the computer ,, BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE NUMBER 8 Rick |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
At least you will look at a reserve or BIN auction to determine for yourself if the offering is realistic. There's some (unknown number) who pass over both on principle without even glimpsing at them. I suppose, speaking in generalities, they do this since most reserves and many (if not most) BINs are not realistic.
Thanks for the responses. I'm obtaining a better grasp on reserve auctions from a seller's viewpoint.
Fred
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Metalman
Hi Fred
BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE NUMBER 8
Rick
You didn't really think I was gonna let this pass without comment, didja? Remember, 15 will ALWAYS be more than  ! Hehehehehehe.......... Fred |
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Valued Member
United States
393 Posts |
This is an interesting thread. I thought I'd add some ideas from a buyer's perspective. In the last few weeks there have been between 90k and 120k listings under US coins. If I want to look at coins ending the soonest it's impossible to see them all because you'll have a listing ending sometimes greater than one per second. So, you have to pick what you really want to see quickly. Looking at a item that has no bids after 7-10 days usually isn't worth wasting time on. This could be because it's not worth the starting bid, or the seller has a bad feedback rating. After seeing an almost endless column of the buy it now symbols with no bids is usually an indication that something is not worth looking at for whatever reason. However, if you see a listing that has 18 bids this is something you just have to see! After looking at thousands of listings your eye becomes trained to avoid items with no bids and items with the buy it now symbol. I know this is cheating in a way because you've let everybody else do the dirty work of looking through all the listings and identifying attractive listings by bidding on them. As far as the reserve listings, if I'm trying to look quickly, I tend to assume that the reserve may be set to high anyway and just proceed on without wasting time. The only time I look at all the listings is if I'm searching for something specific. This is window shopping in the 21st century, but I enjoy looking and occasionally find something I can't do without and end up sniping my way into paying more than I wanted to spend. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5953 Posts |
I look at auctions with a reserve and those with a high start price but for the most part I do not bid on any ebay auctions until the last 30 mins. Even then I will not bid on any auctions whos start price is close to what I think the value of the coin is. Its not and auction if you list a coin with a start price close or at to its actual value its a straight sale and for the most part I can do better at my localish coin shops. I only buy of ebay if I think the coin is a bargin. So most auctions with reserves fall outside my bargin window. the only exception being modern proofs which are next to impossible to find in any of my local shops in singles and high grade. For these I use ebay and will pay a little more than what I think its worth just beacuase they are so hard to come by. Finding coins like a 1969 5c PR69DCAM is not easy even scanning ebay/teletrade/Heritage And when they do come up they always go for more than I would be willing to pay. Thankyou PCGS/NGC for ruining my chances of completeing my Nickel collection with your registry Gimmik. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Let's play with a hypothetical example: I have an 1892-CC Morgan silver dollar I bought raw for $700 off ebay two years ago. I submitted it to PCGS and it came back slabbed at MS-62. I just upgraded and bought an 1892-CC PCGS MS-63, so I don't need the MS-62 and will sell it on ebay. I know 1892-CCs are mid-range in demand, so it'll sell, but I don't want to lose money on it, might even make a little. It's current "book value" is $850 (PCGS Price Guide), $1300 (CoinValues.US), or $1400 (Coin Values magazine). While I could get greedy and list it with a Buy It Now for, say $1350, I know it won't sell if I take this tact. Or, I could list it with an auction start price of $1350; from experience, I know this won't sell either since I'm at or near the book value (as opposed to the market value) and ebay buyers don't normally buy at book value since they're looking for bargains. However, I'm not greedy, just want my initial investment back. So, I list the start price at 99 cents, but include a hidden reserve of $730 (cost plus grading); I mention in my description that the reserve is well below book value. My tact is with a low start price, I get the bidding going early and, hopefully, a bidding war will follow with the side hope that bidders are trying to determine the reserve price. If it sells at the reserve price, I break even (which is all I want) and the buyer gets a bargain. What's gonna happen? What are you gonna do? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5953 Posts |
Include in the auction that the coin trends between $1300 Coin values.us and $1400 quoting Coin Values magazine and also state that the reserve is around half that. A link to the Price Guide is probably a good idea.
PCGS coins I have listed have usually sold for between 50 and 70% of the PCGS listed value.
Just my 2C
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
The 1892-CC date and grades were something I just pulled out of the air. I was surprised there was such a discrepancy between CV, CoinValues.us, and PCGS Price Guide, especially with PCGS at the low end. Usually, PCGS is right up there or sometimes above the others.
I write very detailed descriptions including bag marks or whatever which cannot be seen in the images. In this particular auction, I would have mentioned the price differences (listing the URL of PCGS Price Guide for Morgans is a good idea) and the fact that the reserve is below the lowest.
A problem with hypothetical cases is that there are so many variables for each particular coin. It's difficult to plug in these variables into a formula without knowing what they might be for a specific coin.
Fred
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,577 |
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Posted 10/15/2005 08:27 am
