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Fake Or Genuine Civil War Tokens?

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 6 / Views: 3,334Next Topic  
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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4416 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2015  9:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Take a look at this European's many Civil War tokens. They are very similar looking with regard to letter style, condition, lack of circulation marks and more. I regard them as highly suspicious. I shared this thought with one of the top U.S. token dealers, and he noted that others have expressed similar concerns about this seller's items, too. Here's but one of a few dozen pieces he's listed:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/H-V-Keep-Ci...AOSw~bFWL6T4

Thoughts, anyone?
Edited by ExoGuy
10/27/2015 9:40 pm
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Dave H's Avatar
United States
1436 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2015  9:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dave H to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have seen these SAME EXACT tokens listed on E-Bay by this seller a total of 3 times now. He uses a different color backgrounds, and changes the positioning of the tokens and also the lighting to make the color appear different each time. My first thought was he was scamming buyers by not sending them at auction's end & re-listing them, but I believe your thought of them being counterfeits may be correct. I checked his completed auctions and found that both of the Isaac Shidler Dealer In Boots & Shoes CWTs ARE the same exact tokens. There is a blemish on the rim above the E in Shidler that is in the same location and shape... which would be caused by transfer die counterfeiting. The same token is now being listed again in a new auction.
Edited by Dave H
10/27/2015 10:21 pm
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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4416 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2015  11:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Dave, for confirming, in effect, my suspicion. From my perspective, this is a VERY sad realization.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4416 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2015  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some pics of his few dozen tokens. Note their similar blotchy coloring, the finely granular surfaces, the somewhat mushy letters on some, the typically XF grade on them with an overall absence of contact marks.

Fake-Or-Genuine-Civil-War-Tokens?

Fake-Or-Genuine-Civil-War-Tokens?

Fake-Or-Genuine-Civil-War-Tokens?

Fake-Or-Genuine-Civil-War-Tokens?

Fake-Or-Genuine-Civil-War-Tokens?

Fake-Or-Genuine-Civil-War-Tokens?

Fake-Or-Genuine-Civil-War-Tokens?

Fake-Or-Genuine-Civil-War-Tokens?
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Dave H's Avatar
United States
1436 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2015  10:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dave H to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a write-up of understanding counterfeit coins from http://www.coinsarefun.com

http://www.coinsarefun.com/2013-03-...erfeit-coins

It states about transfer die counterfeits...

Transfer dies:
These are the most common used and also the most deceptive.
The counterfeiters actually create a working die, but since they are using the same die all imperfections struck from those dies will go onto the coins. Sometimes there will be a blemish on the die, and the counterfeiter tries to remove it. Since the counterfeiter is using the same die, there are things known as repeating depressions. The reason they are repeating is because any coin struck with that die will have the same imperfection. A genuine coin must be sacrificed as a host to make the transfer dies. Because the genuine coin used will have contact marks, the metal flows into the planchet creating what is known as depressions on the counterfeit coin. Some rules of thumb:
Because of the transfer die process. many gold coins use this. Also, because a genuine host coin is used and a crude die is made, called an impact die, there is generally loss of detail on the counterfeit coin.
A good thing to do is look at many genuine coins in a particular series. Once you know what a genuine coin looks like, in general, counterfeits become much easier. Generally genuine coins have sharp, crisp letters and devices. numbers as well. Weak fatty letters and devices are a dead giveaway the coin is counterfeit. Please remember that generally you need many different attributes to determine a coin thought to be counterfeit, for example if you just find a depression or two on the coin, this is not enough to deem it counterfeit. Depressions can also be mint made, but often they do not have the luster that a counterfeit coin has. Color is another thing to look for on counterfeit coins. Generally sometimes, the color is just "off' and it doesn't look right.

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Dave H's Avatar
United States
1436 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2015  10:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dave H to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like the seller is back at it... this time selling from Bulgaria...

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sisiffu1/m....047675.l2562
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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4416 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2015  07:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep, all fakes. I took the time to report all 24 fakes and contact a few CWT guys who are trying to combat this sort of thing.
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