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Is Indian Gold Worth Collecting?

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Valued Member

United States
245 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  08:44 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TMCD75 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have always hunted arrowheads and generally been fascinated by the American Indians since I was a boy. I really like the $2.50 Indian Head coins. They're a short series and most pieces can be picked up for under $400. There is one key that's very pricey, out of my current budget.

Does anyone here collect them and are they more bullion or numismatic? I'm in the middle of putting together a GSA set of Carsons, so this would be down the road.
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davec13's Avatar
United States
757 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  09:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davec13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a few of them in my collection. I pick them up because it was one coin my grandmother always had and would take it out and let me "play" with. When she passed away it was supposed to be mine, but it vanished so I've been replacing it with cheap ones I find. One day I may complete the series but for now it's not a focus of mine.
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kanga's Avatar
United States
5825 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  09:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't collect them
BUT
a quick look at the pricing tells me they are common (except the key) thus their cost should float with the gold spot.
Therefore if your "worth collecting" question means for investment purposes my answer would be "no".
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
are they more bullion or numismatic?

They are numismatic, BUT they are common enough, and there is a small enough collector base that there are well more than enough of them available to keep their prices not a lot higher than bullion (except for high MS pieces)

That means they will always probably stay close to the bullion base unless one of two things happens. Something happens to eliminate a lot of the existing coins (not likely) or the number of collectors greatly increases. And that isn't likely unless the price of gold falls steeply. (There would be a lot more collectors at $200 gold than $1300 gold. Even then there would probably still be a lot more cois available than collectors.)
Edited by Conder101
11/11/2015 11:30 am
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thecoinguy1964's Avatar
United States
1308 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thecoinguy1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
l collect arrowheads too.
Edited by thecoinguy1964
11/11/2015 11:44 am
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Buddy's Avatar
United States
7075 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  1:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You just gave me a great idea! I've got about 10 arrowheads and a little display case. Wouldn't they look nice with a litle bit of gold?
Valued Member
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add iowaguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful design and coins! I have a 1925D and a 1911 weak D considering slowly putting set together myself since have the key date. Good luck and if you do make sure to post them as you go. I think would be great looking set to complete!
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thq's Avatar
United States
3343 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  3:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why not the Indian half eagles? IMO the quarter eagles are way overpriced relative to bullion, and they're the size of a stinkin' dime (read Fred Astaire quote below). I'd rather collect French 20F's - lots of rare dates, bigger coin, and they sell at bullion so always more gold for less money than a quarter eagle. If you're constantly upgrading your set, the quarter eagles will eat up your capital on dealer premium.

Besides those incuse coins spread diseases. The best late design is the eagle.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
11/11/2015 3:37 pm
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United States
1450 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The thing with the Indian Half Eagle is the 1929 which for most is uncollectable, so you never will get a full set. Also, if you look at historical price of gold over the last 30 years we had a peak in 1980 and in about 2011-12. Since 2011 the price of gold has been falling and if it falls to the average price of gold over the last 30-40 years it will be selling for around $300 an ounce. I love gold coins and very much want to collect many of them. However, I think they may have a much longer way to fall since they do follow the price of bullion. Even some of the rare Saint-Gaudens are selling for not much over the bullion price at auction. The really rare gold coins such as the Saint-Gaudens that were returned to the mint in the 1930's and melted down may still be very valuable because they are freaks of nature if they survived. If you look at almost all the gold coins of he 20th Century most are uncollectable unless you have very, very deep pockets. Silver has the same problem since it peaked at almost $50 an ounce during or just before the Great Recession we just lived through. Now the price of silver is about $14.50 an ounce and if it falls to historical average prices it will fall much more over the next five to ten years. You just have to collect coins because you like or love them IMO. I have bought gold mining stock over the last few years thinking it will turn around soon. Now I am thinking it has a lot further to fall. Prices of commodities tend to revert to the mean which is the average price over many years. Now I will be all wrong if there is another economic disaster in our near future, and that is why people buy gold and silver just in case. Unfortunately, gold and silver coin prices do follow these trends to a pretty significant extent from my limited research. The best hedge against that kind of disaster may be to buy bags of small denomination junk silver and stash it some place. You might be able to buy a loaf of bread for an old dateless, dime, silver quarter or half dollar depending on how bad things would get.
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bpoc1's Avatar
United States
4078 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bpoc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Besides those incuse coins spread diseases.

I'm glad your kidding.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
United States
94367 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well said, terry8835.
Valued Member
United States
245 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TMCD75 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I appreciate the effort you put into that reply, Terry. I've only been into coins for maybe 6 months tops, but I've bought in with guns blazing.

My gold position is close to 15 ounces, silver position is at least 300oz, and I've got a nice start on the CC GSA short series. I've got well over 20k in bullion/numismatic positions. No more gold for me right now, I'm probably holding too much as is.

I will stay away from the Indian Head gold...maybe I'll just buy a common piece and leave it at that. If silver goes to 10 bucks an ounce, I'm going to really load up on silver. Same with gold, if it bottoms to 400 per, I'm buying.
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United States
1450 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What they say is don't try to catch a falling knife. If gold were to fall to $400 an ounce I think many, many gold mining operations would just go broke. You can look for historical charts of the price of both silver and gold for long periods of time. It does seem the average price between the boom in around 1979-80 and 2010-12 was between 300-500 an ounce. We are on the downside of a tremendous boom in which both silver and gold went to insane prices. How much farther they will fall is anyone's guess. I was watching the crazy man Cramer and he said silver has major industrial uses and industry of that kind are really hurting. He said to avoid silver. If I listened to that guy seriously I would be in a rubber room. He used to run a hedge fund so he knows gold and silver and all precious metals are a hedge. You buy them knowing you are speculating.

I wonder what kind of damage to the economy would have to happen for gold to drop back to $400 an ounce or for silver to hit ten. I do buy precious metal mining stocks by cost averaging into a Vanguard Precious Metals fund. I don't know if it is better to buy the metal or the metal mining stocks? It is easy to dollar cost average with stock funds, but not so easy with the actual metal. The thing I see is that the precious metals and the coins they make up could fall and stay down for years. That is why I say to collect coins for the love of it and don't speculate on the prices. If the price of gold and silver coins drops because of decline in the metals price then you have opportunity to buy the coins you may really want at lower prices. One thing also is that nobody rings a bell when commodity prices have reached the bottom and are starting back up again! What I have seen is that commodity prices of all sorts are so volatile that you pays your money and takes your chances. I just buy and collect coins as a hobby. Not trying to make money with my coins.
Valued Member
United States
245 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  9:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TMCD75 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm in Vanguard too, VTSAX, Vanguard Reit and the International stock fund that escapes me right now.

I bought coins, gold and silver to diversify more than anything else. Plus, I like collecting coins!I have to admit, it would be nice if these metals took off over the moon and we could all make a tidy profit...and I think we will in time.
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thq's Avatar
United States
3343 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wouldn't count on coins going to the moon. Or bullion, unless someone tries to corner it.

A year ago I liquidated my dad's royalty trusts as estate executor. It was a wake-up call to what can happen if you hang on to commodities. Decades of high yield can be wiped out in months. After seeing what happened to oil, $300 gold wouldn't surprise me.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
11/11/2015 10:34 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2015  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is the consistent investor/collector with steady nerves that makes a profit in the end. I have been investing for about 30 years. I made money because I did not bail out when other people bailed out of stocks and went 150% into cash. In the last 5-6 years I almost tripled my money after getting bashed in 2009. Same with precious metals except those metals soared during the Great Recession and then crashed when things started to look up. The metals are supposed to act contrary to the stock and bond market that is why they are a hedge. Maybe I was just too dumb to heed the advice of others and now I know many so-called experts are just guessing. It is like the guys who predict who will win the World Series and are almost always wrong. Coins, art and collectables are a little bit different than gold and silver. At least gold and silver have some intrinsic value whereas Art has no value except what we give it or what the experts and collectors are willing to pay. Talk about a great potential crash....the fine art world.

We will keep our nerve and maybe we will make a tidy profit of the metals and our coins. Here is to hope!
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