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 Replies: 20 / Views: 4,043 |
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Valued Member
United States
190 Posts |
On ebay, there are thousands and thousands of listings for BU rolls of Lincoln Wheat Cents from the 1940's. Some are solid date original rolls and some are mixed date BU rolls. Most of these can be purchased for less than $10. Canada Small Cents from the 1940's have relatively high mintages with some over 100,000, but I do not see very many rolls being offered. Most of the rolls that I see on ebay are solid date rolls. Can you get BU rolls of mixed date 1940's Canada Cents cheaply in Canada or are these rolls rare? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts |
They are rare though there are some around. They are rarely offered on ebay. They occasionally appear at auction, though they have almost always already been sorted. I had the good fortune of having a collection including 4 or 5 rolls of MS 1940s cents left to me some years back. About 10 years ago, before I knew better, I offered the rolls to a dealer who declined to buy them. I would have sold them then for $20. I later ended up sending many to ICCS, including a number of MS65s (a 42 and a 48 were the best pulls), a few MS64 1944s and lots and lots of MS 1942 1943 1944 1945s. The best pull of all was an upset dies MS 1944 (I think still the only one in an ICCS holder). I had the last laugh on that one. Edited by Smallcentguy
11/23/2015 12:39 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5394 Posts |
In a word original rolls are scarce to rare . The Eatons Department store bag hoard was dispersed in the 1960 's.
Today one can find the odd roll here and there from 1940, 1943, 1945, 1946, 1947 and 1947 ML, and 1949 A off denticle.
Rolls of 1941 or 1944 are rarely if ever encountered. Virtually the same scenario for 1942 and 1948 .
Hope this helps.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts |
Quote:
Canada Small Cents from the 1940's have relatively high mintages with some over 100,000 100K is in no way a high mintage. For 20th century coins, a mintage of 1 million is generally considered small- in 1944 alone, the three US mints produced over 2 billion cents, with figures reaching almost 17 billion in 1982. Looking in Charlton, it looks like Canadian cent mintages in the forties are generally several tens of millions per year. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
818 Posts |
I managed to get my hands on 29 rolls of 1953 pennies. https://goccf.com/t/232085 opened a few and then had to stop. Stored the 4 rolls I opened and kept the rest as they were. There are some very high grade cents in there. Going to sit on these for a few more years. It takes me everything not to open those rolls, I was finding some very interesting errors/varieties. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts |
I remember that thread. I've considered getting a bank box (probably nickels) and storing it to open when I'm an adult and finds are scarcer, but I realized I'd never be able to wait that long. I think stashing away 25 rolls was a wise move, though. Wouldn't it be upsetting, though, if you opened the box in 50 years and found a variety that's valuable now but worthless then?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
The Eatons Department store bag hoard was dispersed in the 1960 's.
I'm wondering if there was such a thing as pennies distributed by coin roll in the '40s? Perhaps pennies were shipped and held by bank in thick canvas bags and therefore no rolls are truly original? Even in the '70s I seem to vaguely recall that coin was sometimes received bulk from the mint in bags, not rolls. Then it was rolled at the branch. At some point in time in the past, it was individual banks who began providing coin in rolls, advertising their name. It would be interesting to know who was the first and in what year. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
818 Posts |
I think AgcoinAU pointed this out on another thread but I find it remarkable that there are 4 advertisements for rolls of 40's Canadian cent rolls smacked dab in the middle of this conversation Quote:
Wouldn't it be upsetting, though, if you opened the box in 50 years and found a variety that's valuable now but worthless then? No way to tell but I doubt DD and hanging varieties will become unrecognized over time esp. on MS cents. The coin market may crash due to unforeseen reasons but I doubt even that. Even with a complete crash of our economic and social systems I am covered as I could melt the copper and fashion it into spear/arrow heads.   |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts |
I agree that the varieties will not dip in price, unless someone who is sitting on unsearched rolls somehow finds the treasure trove of MS 40's cents. I don't think that Numisma was aware of the fact that Pennies are being pulled back by the mint and melted down.
when people can sell rolls of pennies for double face value (right now) just because the average person cannot get them, I can only predict the actual rise in value of most of the pennies out there.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Any original rolls from 40s or so would be cool to adquire with a nice premium.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts |
Quote:
I don't think that Numisma was aware of the fact that Pennies are being pulled back by the mint and melted down. I am aware of that, I was just stating the facts. Quote:Quote:
Wouldn't it be upsetting, though, if you opened the box in 50 years and found a variety that's valuable now but worthless then? No way to tell but I doubt DD and hanging varieties will become unrecognized over time esp. on MS cents. The coin market may crash due to unforeseen reasons but I doubt even that. I was mostly joking when I said that (I know there's next to no chance), but one example that comes to mind is how the 1903-O Morgan dollar down here in the states was originally extremely valuable, then the value was destroyed in 1962 by a mass treasury release of that date. I don't know if anything like that has happened in the Canadian coin market. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Kind of the mess with the BOC gold coins of 1912 to 1914
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5394 Posts |
Cents were distributed by the OTTAWA mint in cloth bags of 20 and 60 dollar face value amounts. The bag and roll craze resulted in many bags being distributed by commercial banks in Canada to collectors and hoarders.
This is a big reason there are bucket loads of one cent BU coins from the 1959 to 1964 period around. I still use a sixty dollar bag of 1963 s as a door stop in my office.
Most , but not all of the Gem BU small cent rolls of the 1937 through 1959 period probably originate from the massive cash office hoard of the T Eaton Company distributed in the early 1960 s by a couple of Winnipeg coin dealers and Charlton.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
I am not sure what you mean by a mess for the BOC coins. There was a definite drop in value for MS62 or less to somewhere near melt, but the MS 63 & higher seem to be doing ok. Definitely a lower price, but not sure I would call it "destroyed".
If anything it serves as a good warning to collectors about coins that were not widely circulated, but had a significant mintage compared to the collector population. Without any confirmed reports of destruction/unrecoverable loss, the risk is always present for a large hoard will come forward and lower a price that should never have been as high as it was. As the available population of coins was only temporarily limited.
I would consider a mess to be a bunch of 1911 silver dollars becoming available.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
First the 1911 dollar will affect only one collector, how about everyone was allowed one coin and no return, one of Canada premier dealer had early access and bought most of the coins and as you mentioned 1913 5 dollar ms 63 is barely worth half of prerelease, just need the crown corps to act with fairness. Something like the Landon collection comes on the market and changes the large cent market , well that's fair game.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
I don't think I had any kind of special access, but I purchased 1 x 1914 $5 coin first day, 3 months later I contacted the mint and purchased 1 x $5 1912 & 1 x $5 1914. The $10 1913 & 1914 were still available 1 year later at issue price. I highly doubt they would have restricted anyone from purchasing available coins several months later. Initially there was a 1 coin per type/date limit, months later I don't think that was the case with many coins still available for purchase.
I think they showed great restraint and fairness by only releasing about ~12% of the total number of coins available. If everything was released at auction, we would only be looking at melt for all but a few coins. I don't know everything about the Landon sale
In terms of no returns, that is the same as a sight unseen sale, I had no issues with that as I was aware of the policy ahead of time, the product was offered below current market rates and I trusted their word when they said an effort had been made to only pick better examples.
The value drop is to be expected, but given the mintage figures, the only reason prices were as high as they were was because the market did not have access to sufficient supplies. With the 1911, it has a mintage of 2. If they had decided to re-release the coin using original dates and dies, that is what I would consider unfair, maybe there is a better example of that. My understanding is that some countries have done this. I only used the 1911 example because I could not think of a Canadian coin with a 100% known low mintage, that was not melted down (eg. 1921 5 cent, 50 cent).
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Replies: 20 / Views: 4,043 |
Posted 11/23/2015 12:04 am
