Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. 300,000 items to help build your collection! Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Specializing in Modern Numismatics Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Basic (?) Question About Numismatics

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 1,826Next Topic  
New Member

Canada
4 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2015  6:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add rst to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello,
I am hoping someone will be able to answer a question for me about Numismatics.
At least many currencies have patterns in the size of the various coins and bills. For example, in Canada, we have a roughly 1, 2, 5 pattern, but the Euro matches the pattern closer. 1 cent, 2 cents, 5 cents, 10 cents, and so on. I would like to learn more about these patterns in different currencies, but I don't even know what words to search for.
Can anyone recommend some references or even some search terms?
Thanks,
Ray
Pillar of the Community
0xDA71D's Avatar
United States
1215 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2015  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 0xDA71D to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think what you are meaning is order of denominations. I don't think there's actually a technical term for this. I may be wrong.

In numismatics, "pattern" refers to a trial strike coin, typically presented to government officials.
New Member
Canada
4 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2015  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rst to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks,
That gives me a place to start.
I'm afraid what I know about numismatics wouldn't even come close to filling a thimble. I'm not surprised I got some words wrong, I'm just pleased I got enough right for you to understand what I meant.
Thanks again,
Ray
Pillar of the Community
United States
589 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2015  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Groszy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you're interested in knowing the various denominations of world currencies, searching Wikipedia and going currency by currency can get you what you want easily. If you're looking for historical denominations, Wikipedia can probably help, but it's harder...an easier solution would be to go to your local library, request (probably via inter-library loan) some Krause catalogs of world coins and banknotes, which will tell you a lot more than Wikipedia will.
Pillar of the Community
Numisma's Avatar
United States
4963 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2015  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm afraid what I know about numismatics wouldn't even come close to filling a thimble.

There's lots to learn, and we all have to start somewhere. to CCF!
New Member
Canada
4 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  01:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rst to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello,
Thanks for the suggestion Groszy. I have a teenager who works at the library, and I now have a copy on order.
And Numisma, thanks for the kind words and encouragement.
Ray
Valued Member
SpareHuman's Avatar
Sweden
135 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  04:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SpareHuman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Trying thumbing about this site..

http://en.numista.com/

Click the catalogue tab, select country list and have a go at it. It's a fairly extensive listing of catalogued coins. Not as comprehensive as Krause, but offers the convenience of researching at home.
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16810 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  07:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Humans like counting in base ten, because we have ten fingers. We find it "natural". However, ten isn't a particularly convenient base to use as a currency, because 10 is only divisible by 5 and 2. Thus, the only "natural" denomination series for base 10 is: 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 and so forth. Using other numbers in the series, like 3 or 4, is less convenient because you then have to introduce "un-natural" things like fractions and remainders. The maths is less intuitive.

When decimal currency systems were first proposed, they followed this "pure decimal" pattern: 1 cent, 2 cents, 5 cents, 1 dime, 2 dimes, 5 dimes, 1 dollar, 2 dollars, 5 dollars... and so forth. However, in North America, the implementation of this system was impeded by the pre-existence of a foreign-made dollar coin which was divided into eighths, not tenths. Thus, there already were coins of 1, 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 dollar in circulation. As the American mint was unable to supply the entirety of American monetary requirements for the first several decades following independence, these "odd" fractions had to be incorporated into the decimal system. You've simply never gotten aorund to getting rid of those odd fractions yet. Thus, America (and subsequently Canada) acquired a quasi-decimal currency system, combining aspects of both systems.

Theoretically, base twelve would be a more "logical" numeral system on which to base a currency; you can get more fractional coins per series: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 12. The old predecimal British system used this in part, with 12 pence to the shilling and, at various times, coins were indeed issued in 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 12 pence face value. It's just a pity that most of us don't have 12 fingers.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
Numisma's Avatar
United States
4963 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  07:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I fully agree that base 12 would be a much more logical number system and have felt that way for years. Base 8 (octal) or 16 (hexadecimal) would also work. The only problem is that humans have been using the less practical base 10 for thousands of years, because that's how many fingers we have. It's too bad, the Spanish really had something going there. Same with the British pre-decimal system.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  09:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure if this will help but as to the original question, try finding a copy of the Red Book by Whitman Publishing. This book will give you a decent overall informative amount for all past and present US coins.
Pillar of the Community
Collects82's Avatar
United States
1316 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collects82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Red Book for US is a wonderful reference and Krause is great starting for the World Stuff over the last 400 years.

Different countries from different cultures have come out with very different mathematical systems, and they have evolved over the years. Thai money today has rather different denominations than 120 years ago.

SAP's and Numisma's nailed the underlying math behind many currencies.
New Member
Canada
4 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rst to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to everyone who has commented. The first step of learning is learning what questions to ask.
Now I have some questions to ask.
Special thanks to SpareHuman, looks like a convenient starting place; and SAP and Numisma, that is the kind of thing I'm interested in. I want to learn about what has been done by different cultures.
Pillar of the Community
Finn235's Avatar
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a thread here on the Main Coin forum, maybe on page 2, where the members showed off their "odd" denomination coins.

Prior to the introduction of a decimal system to coinage in the late 1700s, most coinage systems were based on a decree that XXX grams of copper = XX grams of silver = X grams of gold. These systems varied wildly based on the local scarcity of each precious metal, and were seldom stable, as many rulers debased their currency to stretch it a little further. These systems often gave rise to very odd denominations, such as 1/13th of a shilling (Jersey, 1860s), and 1/260th of a Mark (German states, 1760s).

Odd denominations in modern decimal systems are far less common and usually have a story behind them. Some of my favorites to read up on:

Panama, 1 1/4 cent, 1940--used to prevent shops from ripping people off who couldn't afford to buy all 4 items from the "4 for 5 cents" bin at the supermarket.

USA 3 cents -- introduced so that people could use a single coin to mail a letter with a 3 cent postage stamp.

USA 2 cents - introduced specifically to introduce the motto "In God We Trust" to discourage the rampant use of private copper tokens during the Civil War.

USA $4 "Stella" - pattern coin used to propose the idea of joining the Latin Monetary Union. The proposal was rejected, but the presentation pieces were kept by the Congressmen.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4589 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
12 is a terrible base... it has the same problems translating to binary as 10 and we don't have the fingers for it...
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
  Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 1,826Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.35 seconds to rattle this change. Forums