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Where Do I Start With VAMS?

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Valued Member
mcanniz's Avatar
United States
486 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2015  10:15 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mcanniz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
yes, this is a very general question, but where should I start? previously, I've been a Lincoln Cent guy, but I want to start learning more about classic coins and especially silver dollars. I have a nice 10x and 20x loupe. I've vammed one of my Morgan dollars a while ago and I figured it out with the help of this thread. I've seen many people talking about cherrypicking vams and stuff like that. I would like to be able to do stuff like that because it seems like theres a lot of money to be made and info to be learned, but theres soooo much info all at once. I've read the vamworld intro to vamming pages. is there a list of popular vams to look for when cherrypicking? thats the only specific question I have right now, but also tell me if you would, how you started learning about vams and what I can do to get better and possibly identify vams without spending an hour on vamworld I know I'm asking a million questions at once so any sort of info will help. thanks!
Valued Member
d_dob's Avatar
United States
193 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2015  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add d_dob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
mccaniz, we're in the same boat! I just started researching vamming, too, and, let me tell you, I spent hours the other night and felt like my head was going to explode. I thought pennies were complicated!

And, I know you veteran coin folks are going to say it takes years to learn about all this stuff. The more I learn, the more I realize that.
Valued Member
mcanniz's Avatar
United States
486 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2015  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcanniz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
heres where my signature holds true
Valued Member
VAMsforMoney's Avatar
United States
220 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2015  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VAMsforMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just want to instill a sense of reality into the conversation. While a person can make a buck or two from Vamming, making money IMHO is not the reason to get into Vamming. If you like large silver disks over 100 years old in UNC, then collecting Morgan dollars is a great hobby. Vamming those large silver disks makes it even more fun.

You have heard this saying before in different contexts, but the way to make a small fortune in Vamming is to start with a large fortune.
Valued Member
mcanniz's Avatar
United States
486 Posts
 Posted 11/24/2015  10:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcanniz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yes I completely understand. I'm not doing this for money, but I've seen some normal coins be worth much more because its a VAM. for me, thats an added plus ive been collecting all sorts of coins for years now and know that making a fortune is extremely rare. I realize that my original post seems like I was saying I wanted to do it for money, but I really don't expect to make anything from this. the original post was me just typing random thoughts as they popped into my head hahaha
New Member
CO Collector's Avatar
United States
30 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  09:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CO Collector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Too many years & varieties for me!

But instead of giving up, I specialize in 1878 and 1879.

Still learning. And great fun now that easily spot a tiny detail that makes a big difference...

I recently discovered that my family heirloom 1879-S Morgan has the rare-ish 1878 Reverse!

Where-Do-I-Start-With-VAMS?

Reverse side with 1878 Parallel Arrow Feathers (PAF):
Where-Do-I-Start-With-VAMS?


Edited by CO Collector
11/25/2015 10:15 am
Valued Member
United States
149 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add messydesk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I could teach a multi-day class answering the "where to start" question. Wait a minute, I do.

To answer your question here will necessarily cut the information short, but I'll give you some bullet-item advice:

- Never lose sight of the "Collect what you like" rule. Coins and varieties that are interesting to some do nothing for others, and that's OK.
- Learn your way around a silver dollar. The "Attribution 101" page on VAMWorld is a good place to start.
- Don't do it for the money or you'll get frustrated and give up, which is not the point of the hobby. It looks like you have this down.
- Use a good loupe. The largish "16x" loupes that are about $15 are junk. A decent 10x triplet is recommended.
- Keep it simple at first. The Top 100 list, and others like it, were created so that you don't have to sort out 5000 different varieties.
- Don't be intimidated by 1878. The 8TF and 7TF Rev. of 78 are thoroughly researched and not difficult to attribute, even through there are A LOT of them. They also have lots of interesting features that show the design's evolution during 1878.
- Make no attempt to correlate the assigned R-number to a value. This number was an estimate at time of discovery. There are coins initially estimated as R-7 that are worth generic, common money.
- Join VAMWorld (free) and the SSDC ($22/year) and participate on the VAMWorld discussion forum, keeping everything above in mind. People there are generally excited about the hobby and helping others.
Pillar of the Community
Collects82's Avatar
United States
1316 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  10:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collects82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I feel the end result of the VAM project is going identify every different die combination that ever existed in the Morgans, and we use identifiers such as clashed dies, DPR, RPM, die cracks, etc to do it. The accumulate a set of EVERY one of these is not very realistic. I think a the vast majority of people focus on something like the Top 100, a certain type of error like RPM, or a particular year. Just doing a particular year is going to result in dozens of coins and thousands of dollars once the CC coins are added in.
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Cascade's Avatar
United States
7390 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  10:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I highly doubt every combination will be identified even in a thousand years due to one major factor... The Pittman Act
Valued Member
United States
149 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add messydesk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Every combination that exists today may be identified eventually. People are working on it one date/mint at a time, accumulating large quantities of coins in the process, most rather boring from a variety collector's standpoint. They do this because they find the process interesting.

One person is trying to "get them all," and has roughly 2700 different Morgan VAMs. He's doing it because he finds it fun to see how many he can get. Everyone else thinks he's crazy, but he's OK with that, too.

One challenge of the VAM community is to keep the hobby approachable for people just getting into it while all this advanced research and collecting is taking place. The lists afford the opportunity to keep it simple for newcomers. The Top 100 came out in 1996, and was instrumental in getting a lot of people into the hobby, myself included.

Rest in Peace
dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  11:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great advice listed thus far and I'll add the suggestion to have a look at the WOW list. There are a lot of interesting to look at varieties and to me, VAMming is all about collecting Morgans that were struck from dies that were pushed to the limits and beyond. Welcome to the insanity.
Rest in Peace
twodsonegf's Avatar
United States
637 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twodsonegf to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
messydesk hit the nail on the head. The first thing I was going to say was collect what you enjoy and don't plan on making a living on VAMs. Welcome to the VAMily ;)
Pillar of the Community
Cascade's Avatar
United States
7390 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  2:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Messydesk is a vam-fu master!
Edited by Cascade
11/25/2015 5:28 pm
Valued Member
mcanniz's Avatar
United States
486 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcanniz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hahaha thanks for all the pointers so far everyone. I'm still a but overwhelmed, but I'm learning! I have another question. So is every VAM characterized by a specific die, or could there be multiple dies for a cetain VAM? For example, is there a different VAM for every working die, or only for master dies? Also, on VAM world, VAM 1 is described as the "normal" die pair... what does that mean? How is that pair different from others? Thanks everyone!
Pillar of the Community
Cascade's Avatar
United States
7390 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2015  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Vams are classified by die pairings or "marriages". Once one die is switched out now you have a new die marriage / pairing and it becomes a different VAM. But, different stages or big, noticeable die events like clashes, Cuds, gouges etc from the same marriage creates a sub VAM of the same VAM pairing denoted by a letter after the number.

Don't worry about being overwhelmed. When I started I took out all my morgans and went down the list only checking them against the 3 big "lists". Once you start getting the basics down you then start getting familiar with date & mm positions, reverse types and even the different nuances of specific dates / mm's at a glance which will make you faster. Vamming has a process and once you get the hang of it it becomes much less confusing. Although it can get very addicting so be warned that Once you go VAM you can't go back
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Ozland's Avatar
United States
709 Posts
 Posted 03/04/2016  06:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ozland to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You have to think of VAMs as numismatic forensics first and foremost. When you ask about VAMs, there is not one simple answer. Business, hobby or bust? My answer is it all of them, but it is best qualified by each individual in what they expect out of vamming. John Roberts (an attributor at ANACS) thinks the real prospect of survival in our specialty of VAMs is education in depth in all aspects of the field. That means understanding what you have, how significant its particular features are, what level of appeal the variety possesses, actual rarity, a realistic price both as a buyer and seller, and setting some personal boundaries for what you collect or sell. Easy to say but a lot harder put into practice.
The hobby takes time, has a steep learning curve and potential rewards for those who are diligent in their study.
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