Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsCoin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Specializing in Modern Numismatics Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1816 MO 8 Reales

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 4 / Views: 1,360Next Topic  
Valued Member
RockyRoad's Avatar
United States
63 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2015  7:08 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add RockyRoad to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'd like some opinions on this 8 reale piece. Based on information from Swamperbob's book, my limited experience and all of the photos I've seen in these posts, I would conclude that this is some type of counterfeit.

Weight is 26.89g Diameter is 40mm SG is 10.4

There are two nice circular die cracks on the reverse which upon close examination look for all the world like they are the product of a die strike. So... looking at the edge I see what looks to be an overlap at a point just to the left of the D in DEI, but at the 180 degree mark there seems to be excess silver with deep angled marks. This 'damage' would appear to be a coverup for the lack of a second overlap. There also appear to be a few round circles mixed in with squared off ones. I seem to remember Swamperbob saying that square circles are not possible with Spanish minting equipment. But why would we see both in the same strike? Or are they all square?

I am also unsure of the acceptable range for SG readings on 8 reale pieces struck during the war years.

As always, I appreciate everyone's opinion.

1816 Ferdinand VII 8 Reale
Pillar of the Community
wonghinghi's Avatar
Hong Kong
1270 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2015  9:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wonghinghi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful piece, very real to me.
Valued Member
RockyRoad's Avatar
United States
63 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2015  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RockyRoad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks wonghinghi. I would be thrilled if it was regal.
Pillar of the Community
swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2015  7:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are a few things to consider.

First how accurate was the scale? A reading of 10.4 accurate to one place is not good. The equivalent for that is 92-95% silver which is too high. If it is accurate to two places it is much worse.

That said it is unlikely that this would be a Class 2 silver counterfeit. There was no incentive to make them.

The point that the issue is wartime is better to consider as an answer. I have read an early reference that indicated that during the war silver gold parting was not always done even at Mexico City. It is possible that the high density could be the result of a higher than normal content of gold combined with a slightly imprecise SG.

The edge certainly looks horrible - the overlap is exceptionally long perhaps due to a very large burr on the edge that was filed off crudely. The laps are opposed. The circles are not all well done but I do not see any that I would call square except on the bottom side which is often due to strike compression. I see enough under the edge design details to wonder if the edge was applied twice. Neither impression was deep enough to cover the burr but running the coin through the edge twice could account for the long apparent overlap and the adjacent edge damage.
Valued Member
RockyRoad's Avatar
United States
63 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2015  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RockyRoad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Swamperbob. Your comment about the scale motivated me to make another SG test. My scale is a US-AWE model made in you know where that advertises two decimal accuracy. I also purchased a 200g calibration weight for it that I use frequently.

Well...in the interest of exposing the deficiencies of cheap scales I submit the following:

My first test readings on which I based my first post were 26.89 dry weight, 2.58 wet, yielding an SG of 10.42

My retest indicated 26.86 dry weight, 2.60 wet, for an adjusted SG of 10.33

Just FYI, I always suspend the coin at an angle and observe whether or not there are any air bubbles present, making sure to remove them before taking the measurement.

Considering the rather small differences in dry and wet weight from the two tests, the dramatic difference in SG is a real eye opener.

My conclusion is that I need a better scale. Might you have a recommendation?
Edited by RockyRoad
12/06/2015 11:51 pm
  Previous TopicReplies: 4 / Views: 1,360Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.23 seconds to rattle this change. Forums