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 Replies: 10 / Views: 1,829 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
121842037312Seller states this is a man made piece, and therefore PMD, but...stranger things... Could such an error have possibly occurred during the striking process? If it is only possible via PMD, would it have been done contemporary to the coin's age? It seems to me that it would require a Large Cent planchet to be struck with a Half Dime reverse hammer die. The reverse of the Large Cent doesn't look quite right, perhaps from the counterforce of whatever was being used as the anvil while the die was struck. Would be interested to hear some opinions on this piece -- possible real Mint error (despite seller's assertion), contemporary counterstamp using a real or fake Half Dime die, or modern attempt to fool collectors by force-pressing a Half Dime coin's reverse into the Large Cent obverse? Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Edited by paralyse
12/17/2015 11:03 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1005 Posts |
I vote this is done by someone with a Half Dime, a large cent, and a hammer. No other way. |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12057 Posts |
I can see how; presumably the (harder) silver Half Dime would have been able to make an impression in the (softer) pure copper of the Large Cent. I think it would have required a rather fierce hammer blow to leave such a clear impression. Do you think this would have been done relatively concurrently (in the same time period) or much later on? Another thought just occurred to me: could the maker have heated the large cent enough to make much less force required to transfer the impression of the Half Dime into the obverse, thereby explaining the deformed reverse of the Large Cent at its center? Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Edited by paralyse
12/17/2015 11:04 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
One coin pressed into another. The seller has decided that this piece may be of interest to someone if eBayed. He most probably was not the individual who did the PMD shed job, and probably knows nothing of how this PMD came about. In terms of intentional deception, I feel that have to give this seller the benefit of the doubt. The fact of the PMD remains. |
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Valued Member
United States
124 Posts |
This is really weird, and there are several things going on! The lettering of " Half Dime" is reversed, as one would expect from a hammer job. But there is also an arc of letters from "Liberty" intruding into the design that are not reversed.  Apparently it has been re-struck twice?  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
It is without a doubt PMD(hammer job). LIBERTY is part of the Braided Hair Large Cent design, it should be there.
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Forum Dad
 United States
24171 Posts |
Looking at the reverse of the cent I would say this was done in a vice or press.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
That's some great information, folks -- thank you. Sometimes it's fun to try to figure out "how" instead of "what."
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1005 Posts |
Is there necessarily a difference in how this would look if pressed in slowly with a vice/press rather than hit sharply with a hammer on an anvil? Intuition says yes but I don't know enough about metalworking to know which would leave a clearer impression. Either way, if you don't put something soft like wood or rubber beneath the large cent, you would get the flattening of the reverse design as is shown in this piece.
Heating the large cent would make this easier, but it might not be necessary. This is not something I would try at home with the same coins and that would be the best way to tell. Also this was probably done before the large cent had that patina, but there's no way of knowing if it was done the week after it was minted or 20 years later.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
Modern high speed coining presses can produce 500 to 1,000 coins per minute.
Half of their time is spent on the upstroke, before the next coin is pressed? struck?
The amount of time to actually do the strike works out to be not much more than 1/100th of a second.
That is why I say "pressed? struck?"
Perhaps it is a moot point that this shed job was pressed in a vise, or struck with a heavy hammer blow.
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Valued Member
United States
196 Posts |
I would assume it is not a counterstamp/minted coin since the writing from the Half Dime is a mirror image. I would expect the letters to be in the correct orientation were it counterstamped. It would have to be something that was already minted that was pressed into the original large cent. Would that be sound logic? |
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Replies: 10 / Views: 1,829 |
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Posted 12/17/2015 11:01 pm
