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2016 S$5 Canada MS-70 Maple Leafs

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Pillar of the Community

Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2015  10:49 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add JGG to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hey gang,
Past the first couple weeks of release, to my understanding, getting an MS70 on a silver Maple is next to impossible at NGC. This is usually because the first little milk issues begin to show up on the coin. A 2015 MS70 Maple goes for about $400 USD, where as last year they sold for about $250 USD. The single 2014 MS70 Maple commands a whopping $2500 USD.

Now here is where I need some help. Does anyone really care about first release vs early releases? They only reason I ask is because the first releases designation costs about $200 USD more than the early releases designation. does a label designation really matter that much? Pictures of the new 2016 Maples appended to post.

Anyway, this post is more about showcasing the coins than talking about the designation. I'm a sucker for graded bullion.



2016-S$5-Canada-MS-70-Maple-Leafs

2016-S$5-Canada-MS-70-Maple-Leafs
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2015  11:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What happens when the famous milk issue occurs.
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10456 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2015  12:29 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
What happens when the famous milk issue occurs.


It becomes a "coffin"... the MS-70 holder is basically lipstick on a pig...

Did you see this "MS-69"?

https://goccf.com/t/248741
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2015  07:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a 2015 milky one that turned in the holder. Still sold for $230USD, only $20 cheaper than a clean one would have sold for in 2015.



2016-S$5-Canada-MS-70-Maple-Leafs
Edited by JGG
12/27/2015 07:31 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2015  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Would you pay that amount for the 2015 with this issue, when you know this coin is not now a ms 70?
Edited by john100
12/27/2015 11:25 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2015  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
John,
No I wouldn't. But the registry sets are a great motivator. As any of the coin dealers will tell you, filling holes in registry sets is a profitable venture. I am on the registry sets as well, and I have paid well above book value to obtain a coin in a certain grade. This MS70, http://www.ebay.com/itm/252226931309 , is a good deal and I have picked up a few graded privy maples off this dealer.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2015  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How hard is it for the RCM to ask major mints around the world what rinse they use to prevent the milk spot issues, yet every year same problem. If I know there is a fairly good chance the maple leafs are going to have a blemished finish, I will never pay a premium knowing full well the RCM has done nothing to resolve a simple issue.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2015  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
John, that is a great question. Mostly, the RCM doesn't care what people have to say about it. They responded officially with, 'they are bullion coins and not meant for collecting. The rinsing agent does not affect the coin's purity'.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2015  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will NEVER buy a slabbed bullion coin. period. BAD purchases happened to me when I did this AND I have read hundreds of stories where the end result was milk spots that got worse and the coins value was NILL with a slab.

Dont get me wrong, I love a slabbed coin but it is not worth the extra money for a slabbed bullion coin, period.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2015  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yup, someone is buying them. I picked up a 2016 MS70 as well. There were 7 last week for sale, now there is only one left.

There is another seller who wants $429.99 for one. He has sold a few at that price as well.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2015  10:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First buy what you like, but when you see that the RCM has not resolve the milk spot issue and you see slabbed versions going bad why take the risk. Also there seems to be very little PCGS graded 70 maple leafs leads me to believe NGC favors some large dealers even 7 units of ms 70 is a lot for any coin from one source but good luck.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2015  10:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think this dealer gets them from MCM or Bullion Exchanges. Maybe NGC can work on a slab that is impervious to surface changes?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
798 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2015  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JGG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the link to the top registry set for Canada Bullion coins, out of both PCGS or NGC. To my knowledge, this is the highest grade and most complete set of Maple Leafs. Even here, I see a handful of MS67s.

http://coins.www.collectors-society...SetID=154543
Pillar of the Community
United States
3789 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2015  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yup7676 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@JGG

oh I totally believe you. Furthermore, if someone wants to buy slabbed bullion coins, I cannot fault them nor am I going to tell them how to enjoy their hobby, I completely respect everyone's interests.

I am just saying, from my personal experience, from other hobbyists before me, who have larger collections of slabbed bullion coins.... the lesson is, slabbed bullion coins develop milk spots in time if not soon after purchase and the value of the purchase goes right now the toilet.

i remember one hobbyist who had a blog and bought a complete set of MS 70 canadian wildlife coins, remember the ones with the wolf, bear, and other animals, and he had NO milk spots, later on he goes to look at his entire collection and BAM, milk spots on his MS70s which are no longer worth what he paid... and he blogged about that.

I mean if one wants slabbed coins, again for it. I certainly hope that no one has to experience that set back but its going to be hard to avoid. If someone really wants a slabbed bullion coin, I say get one with milk spots advertised so that one doesn't have a big outlay of cash.
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pocket change 50's Avatar
Canada
1751 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  01:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pocket change 50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It really is sad with this milk spot business. The RCM produces some nice bullion, the wildlife birds of prey series. However, the spots are a real turn off, its made me rethink whether or not to purchase. What's the use of a great design and low mintage, when milk spots ruins it. The mint is copping out and its too bad.

They need to start caring or their reputation is going to go down the drain. They seem to excel at taking a top product and then destroying it. Same with the numis coins, high mintage or over done themes. I'm struggling with finding a reason to buy RCM coins. The only plus is no exchange rate. 2016 is just not the same market as 2012, prices are down and so is spot. It seems more appropriate to wait.
Edited by pocket change 50
01/03/2016 4:17 pm
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Pokermandude's Avatar
Canada
1192 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2016  1:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pokermandude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The RCM's official position on milk spots is that if you want perfect looking coins, you should be buying their "collectible" lines of coins rather than bullion. 1 oz bullion maples cost around $25/oz, while the collector issues can be anywhere from $80 to $200 for a one ounce coin.

The milk spots develop from inadequate rinsing of the blanks used to make the coins. Rinsing them sufficiently to prevent milkspots would be cost/time prohibitive on bullion maples. They are at maximum capacity already, they made approximately 32 million last year. This is comparable to all of the bullion US silver eagles made in 2015 at 47 million.
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