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Rim Crack That Spread To Obverse?

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Agrippa's Avatar
United States
663 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2016  01:32 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Agrippa to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
The crack you see on the rim lines up with where the crack comes down to the west of the "W" on the obverse. As if the crack started on the rim and then came over the lip of the rim and spread onto the obverse.. There is no damage on the reverse. What is this and what is it called? Or is it PMD?

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Rim-Crack-That-Spread-To-Obverse?

Rim-Crack-That-Spread-To-Obverse?

Rim-Crack-That-Spread-To-Obverse?
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kanga's Avatar
United States
5825 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2016  09:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First, terminology.
In your case when you say "the crack started on the rim" the correct terminology is "edge" (often called the third side of a coin).

The "rim" of a coin is totally on the obverse.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IMO what you have is a foreign scrap of metal that got included in the edge and lapped over the rim during the strike.
I base this opinion on the fact that the "WE" got blocked from being fully struck.

Interesting item.
No idea of a premium if any.
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Agrippa's Avatar
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663 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2016  09:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Agrippa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agh! Yeah, I used the wrong terms.....thanks for setting me straight! :)

So would you call it "struck through" then?
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Pete2226's Avatar
United States
3331 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2016  09:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is the area on the edge raised or indented?
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Agrippa's Avatar
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663 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2016  10:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Agrippa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indented
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coop's Avatar
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62064 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2016  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a partial Grease Fill on those devices on "WE" Note how the devices are wider on the bottoms of these devices. The devices on the die are wider at the base and taper as if gets deeper on the bottom of the die. Thus when a device is partially filled, then the narrowed tops of the devices are blocked during the strike, leaving the devices looking wider. Where there is no fill (the tops of "WE") then the devices are normal. So I feel this is a struck through error. (partial device fill on these devices)

I ruled out a lamination, because when this happens, the devices will show a ghost image. These are strong on the bottoms of the "WE", so I ruled out a lamination peel.
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matttheriley's Avatar
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1512 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2016  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matttheriley to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Would this be a Retained Cud?
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coop's Avatar
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62064 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2016  2:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No. There is nothing missing from the die. Just a blockage of the strike.
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Pete2226's Avatar
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3331 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2016  2:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do not understand how a Struck Through Grease can produce the raised area across the top of the W and above and to the right of the E?
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 Posted 01/05/2016  3:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add seal006 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it is a combo struck through and PSD. Across the W the area that is raised is caused by metal flow. There was no place for it to go in the die(remember the devices are incuse on the die), so it went to the area with the least amount of resistence. Which would be in the unobstructed areas of the die devices.
Edited by seal006
01/05/2016 3:28 pm
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pyrbob's Avatar
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1943 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2016  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pyrbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it looks like an area with two small rolling fold errors.
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Pete2226's Avatar
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3331 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2016  5:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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Agrippa's Avatar
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663 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2016  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Agrippa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all of the feedback on this one guys!

I kinda thought the consensus was going to be some kind of die break or Cud.I thought maybe part of the die broke off, like the top part of the "E". It almost seems like the planchet is blank in the area that sits lower, like in between the two broken pieces. Is that possible? Could a part of the die partially broken off? Maybe the rest of the "W" and right of the "E" eventually broke off later? In the meantime, would the part of the die that remained intact kept the die from striking the planchet in the broken area, therefore not only not leaving an imprint (or even leaving the weak strike look on the bottom of the "W", but also not creating the typical Cud that would be there if the whole thing were gone?

I'm probably way off....yeah?
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coop's Avatar
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62064 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2016  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the device broke off it would be raised on the coin like a Cud. But because it is showing the normal devices, it is not a Cud. It is a case of just part of the device being filled with a small amount of grease. The part of the device was not filled. where is was filled the device area is wider. Where there is no grease then the device is normal.
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