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1791 Mexican 8 Reales

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 1,705Next Topic  
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flippy's Avatar
Australia
1874 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2016  02:37 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add flippy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was looking to buy my first 8 Reales. I found this one and I wanted your opinion. Is it authentic, is the price ok? The price is $89.

The seller hasn't provided a weight, diameter or edge photos.

1791-Mexican-8-Reales

1791-Mexican-8-Reales
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2016  9:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Based on just what I see - I believe you are looking at a Numismatic Forgery. I would absolutely wait for an accurate weight and edge photos. There is no rush for such a common variety. There will be others with all the answers.
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flippy's Avatar
Australia
1874 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2016  03:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add flippy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for looking at it for me. What makes it stand out as a forgery?

Also could you recommend where I could find a Spanish or Mexican 8 Reales for under $100 USD.
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2016  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are two things. First the large break near the F (assayer initial) looks like many similar breaks I have seen in modern centrifugal castings. I know that many people do not question such items because they might be genuine die chips, however, there are more seen on cast copies than on the genuine versions.

Second and far worse is the appearance of wire rim from the same F to the cross on the crown. That feature should not be there on a screw press strike. The dentils on a genuine die are cut full length so there is no mechanism that can produce such a feature (raised arc) on a screw press strike.
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GR58's Avatar
United States
11951 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2016  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for posting this ...

Seems like I learn something every time I read a 8R thread.
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rynegold's Avatar
United States
249 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2016  8:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rynegold to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I own several of these, & I like your coin! But the easy tell be in the edge, you need some good pics of that. None the less I'm thinking it could be a genuine coin.
Edited by rynegold
01/15/2016 8:30 pm
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United States
684 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2016  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Westwood Arms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hats off to Swamper Bob. Saw the lump at the F and denticles look odd.

However I do not understand how a wire rim would show up on a casting. Please reference the chapter in your book or some thread if you have chance.
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Susuman's Avatar
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595 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2016  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susuman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I do not understand how a wire rim would show up on a casting.


It is simply the seam between different parts of the mold in which the casting was made, and is called flashing. You could also get such a rim by striking the coin in a collar. I think the question that should be asked is 'How could such a wire rim exist on a real coin, given the known minting process?' The answer is that it can't - the denticles should continue off the edge of the coin. This is similar to the very early US silver dollars - if there is a wire rim, the coin is fake.
Edited by Susuman
01/16/2016 01:03 am
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flippy's Avatar
Australia
1874 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2016  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add flippy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I asked the seller for some edge photos and they haven't replied.
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 Posted 01/15/2016  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Westwood Arms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Susuman thank you. Think I understand.

With 3D and everything can't the forgers do a better job? Where is Mark Hofmann?

Don't collect 8Rs any more because of this.
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flippy's Avatar
Australia
1874 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2016  12:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add flippy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What do you think of this one.

26.97g and 40mm.

1791-Mexican-8-Reales
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 01/16/2016  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
westwoodarms The discussion about the dentils ending before the edge of the coin appears on page 139 of the book.

flippy The 1806 that you posted is a better looking coin. I see no obvious red flags.
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