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 Replies: 46 / Views: 6,360 |
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Valued Member
Canada
135 Posts |
Hi there.Let me preface this by stating I'm still a newbie in the coin collection. I've been collecting higher end graded Canadian dollars, and just when I think I'm honing in my grading skills, I get a coin like this, graded MS-66 by ICCS, and I'm pulling my hair in disbelief. I wonder at times if there's some kind of fraud going on by certain sellers. Is this really an MS-66, or did ICCS have a bad day? or did someone remove the real MS-66, replace it with a lower graded coin and repackage this to look like an original ICCS graded package? Maybe I'm being over suspicious? So many questions :) I know I can call and get them to verify a cert #, but what's to stop someone from replacing the coin in another package? Does ICCS keep a picture of a coin after certifying them? Finally I know they can have a bad day as well, so no blame here. Just asking questions I guess :) Thanks for your valuable input as always and no, I do not intend to return the item to the ebay seller, Ill accept the loss (funny how many ebay sellers don't take clear / detailed pictures of ICCS graded coins). Learnt my lesson.."buy the coin, not the package"...I know.        Edited by upc239
01/15/2016 4:19 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1005 Posts |
That's a rough one. There's something wrong there. When the picture quality on an ebay listing are only clearly showing the holder it is hard to make a good assessment before you buy. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
There has been talk over the years of how coins can be switched in ICCS holders. Quite honestly, in over 20 years of viewing thousands upon thousands of ICCS graded coins, I have only seen one that I wondered if the coin was switched, as the grading was so far off it was laughable. I only collect and am fairly knowledgeable on Canadian coins pre 1967. I know very little of clad coinage and loonies. However, I would strongly recommend on this one, you show it to ICCS and make sure they trace the cert number back to who had it graded in the first place. I've quickly looked on ebay at other ICCS ms66 loonies and yours looks quite a bit worse. Either ICCS totally blew it on this one or perhaps the coin has been switched. If it was me, I'd pay a visit to ICCS. Edited by doubleeagle59
01/14/2016 10:44 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
What are the ICCS cert initials?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
One other possibility and it's happened to me when I have submitted a coin.
They could have graded it an ms63 and wrote on the ICCS submission form 'ms63', but when they typed it, they typed 'ms66'.
This happened to me on an MS Edward quarter many years ago. They typed in a very high MS grade and just for the record, I brought it to their attention and it was corrected.
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Valued Member
 Canada
135 Posts |
Id love to visit ICCS, but I'm in Montreal.I guess I can mail it to them if thats what you meant. My question remains that even if they trace the original person who sent it to grade, how do I know they didn't re-sell it to someone, who sold it to someone...etc..and it finally landed to me (hard to find the culprit I guess)? I'm assuming that this means ICCS doesn't keep a picture database of their graded coins? I would have thought that to be a good deterrent, but I know they like to keep things simple. Here's another theory (that I would love to be true)..the light bulb/lamp I'm using likes to exaggerate hairline / razor scratches? Wishful thinking :)
Edited by upc239
01/14/2016 10:59 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
No picture database.
First thing Monday morning, call them at 1-416-488-8620 and ask them to look up your ICCS initials and number and for them to tell you what grade is written down.
This will at least tell you if the "ms63 to ms66' scenario didn't take place.
Or if you'd like, give me the initials and the number and I'll call for you and report back to you.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
,they likely graded it as such because the chatter was actually on the planchet itself before it was struck. Don't know why it would get a ms66, due to the complete lack of appeal. Like this 1967 quarter that has die burn https://goccf.com/t/250290It's the way they grade I guess, evidence of actual circulation. |
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Valued Member
Canada
135 Posts |
Thanks Alan..sometimes I wonder if its just the way I take pictures. Here is the same coin under different lighting...   I will call Monday as suggested. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
upc239.....call today (Friday 8am to 1pm).
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Valued Member
Canada
135 Posts |
Ok, just called and gave him the info. He said to call back in an hour and he'll let me know the grade.
Thanks!
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
Quote:
,they likely graded it as such because the chatter was actually on the planchet itself before it was struck.  The surfaces are actually quite clean, and remember, ICCS does "technical grading" - eye appeal is not a factor. What you are seeing is extremely poor burnishing on the planchet. I have a couple loon dollar blank planchets and they are of horrible quality - what you are seeing represents former gouges and marks that were on the planchet prior to the strike. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Depending on what you paid for this coin, may not be worth the postage back and forth, man that's an ugly ms66 sorry.
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Valued Member
Canada
135 Posts |
Update: So Brian has confirmed that the Cert# refers to an MS-66 2003 New Effigy Loon. I have a roll of these specific loons that I unwrapped this week and they all show similar poor burnishing. The 2002 rolls that I have unwrapped also have similar appeal. Yes John..she's an ugly one. ICCS Certified 2003 MS-66's are hard to come by (so I'm told). I have put back into circulation many mint loons from rolls that have the appeal of this coin. And I currently have many non-graded samples of this 2003 loon that have a better appeal. The more I think I know, the more I realize how little I know :)
Edited by upc239
01/15/2016 12:46 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
Hmmm....sounds like it is properly graded and not switched. I hope this is the case. I'll be looking on ebay for identical 2003 ICCS ms66 Loonies and checking out the strike. |
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Valued Member
Canada
135 Posts |
If this is an MS-66, then I'm questioning everything I've learnt about grading so far. I'm wondering how many on this forum would have given this better than an MS-62/63, by the pictures alone.
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Replies: 46 / Views: 6,360 |
Posted 01/14/2016 10:44 pm
