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Is This A VAM 3 1885-O ? (In A PCI Holder MS-65?)

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edweather's Avatar
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 Posted 01/17/2016  4:49 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Mint mark appears to be upright and centered. Was beginning to lose hope until I noticed the doubling under the crossbar of the 1, along with the date position which is a little left of normal. There are also a bunch of possible die scratches on the reverse, that according to VAMworld, might or might not be there. I matched 2 of them, but didn't photograph them. Thanks, Ed

Is-This-A-VAM-3-1885-O-?-In-A-PCI-Holder-MS-65?

Is-This-A-VAM-3-1885-O-?-In-A-PCI-Holder-MS-65?

Is-This-A-VAM-3-1885-O-?-In-A-PCI-Holder-MS-65?

Is-This-A-VAM-3-1885-O-?-In-A-PCI-Holder-MS-65?
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2016  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
VAM-3 seems logical to me based on the date position and doubled 1.
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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 Posted 01/17/2016  7:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Which PCI holder? Only the oldest has (reputation) for accurate grading...
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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edweather's Avatar
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 Posted 01/17/2016  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The holder with the solid gold border which I think is one of the more recent ones.
Edited by edweather
01/17/2016 8:43 pm
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BStrauss3's Avatar
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4591 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2016  11:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh dear...

The gold border slabs are Conder's PCI13. These come after the sale of PCI to Leslie Slade in September 2001 and continued when PCI was sold to Brian Beardsley in March 2002 and continued until PCI went bankrupt and the assets were sold after his death.

Conder posted (here: https://goccf.com/t/65529#517614)


Quote:
PCI was a very old company that began business back in 1986. At that time they were owned by Chattanooga Coin and they licensed their photoslab shells from Accugrade. There were four different varieties of photoslab and they were used until 1991. In 1991 HALLMARK grading service went out of business and they sold all of their slabbing shells and equipment to PCI. This began the rectangular slabs with the clipped corners and Green, Red, and blue labels. The green labels were for problem free coins, re labels for problem coins, and blue labels for non-US coins. (There was also a very short lived Signature series slab as well.) These slabs lasted for several years then the font on the labels changed and the serial numbers on the back went from 10 to 14 characters. The blue labels were done away with but the green and red labels continued. Unfortunately the grading standards slipped considerably.

In Sept of 2001 the company was sold to Leslie Slade and a major change was made to the labels. The green border was abandoned and a broad gold border was introduced for the problem free coins. The red border for problem coins was retained but it too changed over to a wide solid red border. The coins now had a 9 digit serial number and the grading got even worse.

In March of 2002 the company was sold yet again, this time to Brian Beardsley. This time there were no changes to te slabs, but the red bordered slabs were discontinued and now both problem free and problem coins were put in the gold border labeled slabs but with no mention of any problems. Needless to say, by now people were avoiding PCI slabs like the plague.

Around late 2006 Beardsley tried to revive PCI's reputation with the return of the Signature Series slabs. For a little extra your coins would be examined by recognized experts in the individual series, graded, varieties identified, and th label signed by the expert. In early 2007 J T Stanton was brought into the company to oversee the new program. Unfortunately Brian Beardsley died shortly there after and his wife took over control of the company. The company declined financially and they stopped paying the expert examiners and the Signature Series died with J T leaving in Sept 2007. By Nov the company folded. The assets of the company were originally scheduled for sale in Jan of 2008, later rescheduled to Feb where they were purchased by David Lawrence Rare Coins. They used the equipment and supplies to create a new grading service Dominion Grading Service.


The key comment is that "grading got even worse" and then that problem coins were being put into slabs "with no mention of any problems".

Which is, I guess, a nice way of saying it's probably not MS65 and it easily could be UNC Details, Cleaned - or worse... but let's revert to the mantra: "Buy the coin not the slab"!

So what do we think it grades based on the photos?
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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edweather's Avatar
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 Posted 01/17/2016  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
O Lordy, well I guess it can't get much worse. But it is in an interesting holder. I did a search on this coin and found 3 previous sales and it sold for as much as $140 about 5 years ago. It might be a 65, but probably between 64 and 65. Imo decent strike, and the color is good and looks original. Have no problem with the reverse, but the obverse is a little rough. Maybe 64/65 for a grade. I have this listed for sale on ebay.

Is-This-A-VAM-3-1885-O-?-In-A-PCI-Holder-MS-65?

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BStrauss3's Avatar
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4591 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2016  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey, I call this the blind squirrel school of grading, as in even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut.

You have it in hand and you are a pretty smart cookie, so who can argue... good luck and do tell us how it comes out!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272106402793

-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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