Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer 300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsSpecializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes.








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Questionable Hadrian Ric 3c

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 1,741Next Topic  
Valued Member
caesar77's Avatar
United States
356 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2016  4:49 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add caesar77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This first coin seems off. The portrait and reverse figures seem blocky, as compared to the others I have seen. The second coin is a comparison coin, where the portrait seems more detailed, and the reverse characters as well. The first coin has poor legends, almost intentionally, and coin just seems intentionally obscured. Thoughts?

Questionable-Hadrian-Ric-3c

Questionable-Hadrian-Ric-3c
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2016  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With the first coin, the style of the portrait is not consistent with the style of any genuine Hadrian coin that I am familiar with.
*Ed: Just looked at over 300 portraits on Hadrian denarii, my mind is still the same

The fields of the first coin are a bit rougher as well.
Edited by sel_69l
01/19/2016 6:00 pm
Pillar of the Community
Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2016  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I speak solely in general terms here, as I'm absolutely a neophyte with regard to ancients, but I've wondered how much you ought to make allowances for the lack of uniformity that must've occurred with various artisans (of differing aptitude for the work) fashioning dies.

It seems to me that the surest way to expose counterfeits would to employ xray fluorescence to determine a suspicious piece's composition - a lack of gold would be telltale, as would a significant presence of elements that should only show up in modern alloys.
Colligo ergo sum
Moderator
Learn More...
echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2016  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The portrait on the first coin looks more like Trajan with a beard and curly hair added. The rough surface and crude details are a sign of an unofficial coin. IMO it's not a recent fake but a contemporary to the period one.
Pillar of the Community
Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2016  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My first thought was that the coin might be - as echizento suggests - a contemporary counterfeit.

Btw, there's an interesting old (2007) 4-page thread on Forum that deals with (official) Eastern denarii of Hadrian, a few with what we would consider fairly "off" styles. Makes for an interesting comparison to caesar77's coin (even though, I believe, his references a Rome mint coin). For those with Forum accounts (needed to see pics, I believe), it begins here: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/bo...opic=39488.0

For the benefit of others, here are three weirder coins from the thread:

Questionable-Hadrian-Ric-3c

Questionable-Hadrian-Ric-3c

Questionable-Hadrian-Ric-3c


Edited by Kamnaskires
01/19/2016 9:05 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3443 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2016  03:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An extremely interesting reverse for Hadrian ( ADOPTIO )

Hadrian had been orphaned as a young man and being a "blood" relation to the Imperial family was taken in as a ward by Trajan.
While clearly a favorite of the Emperor it is the succession which is cloudier. The adoption by Trajan took place literally on the death bed.
It may even have been arranged by the Empress Plotina. Either way Hadrian needed to do some 'spin' and make his elevation secure by getting the support of the legions. Particularly the eastern legions of Syria.
I think it possible the coin is an Antioch issue used by the new regime to spread the message (as well as the money !) among the soldiers.
Remember too the first thing Hadrian did as emperor. He 'brought the boys home' by withdrawing from Mesopotamia ! Surely a gift to the Syrian legions who must have been thrilled not to have to rotate in and out of a place where summer temperatures (then as now) can exceed 130 degrees in the shade !

I believe the portrait could be a reworked Trajan die (often done at the start of new reigns) and accounts for the strange 'family' resemblance.

It took me a few minutes to come around on this one. My initial reaction was the same as 'sel'
Essentially ...... No no no the portrait is all wrong. He actually looks like he has "mutton chops" !

Any other reverse and I would 'punt' on this one.
But this reverse is quite likely one of the first (if not the very first) issue of an incredibly long list of types.
Pillar of the Community
maridvnvm's Avatar
United Kingdom
2100 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2016  05:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These weird style of the coins are what is allocated to Antioch mint apart from the last coin which is a Cappadocia Hemidrachm. There are other even more weird eastern styles for Hadrian where we simply don't know the location of the mint which are touched on by the Forvm thread above. I don't collect the Antioch coins but have several of the odd eastern ones.
Martin

Pillar of the Community
lrbguy's Avatar
United States
949 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2016  11:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's a funky one. I got this coin in a mixed batch back in 1998. I wonder what Curtis would say about it.
I would very much like to hear what you think of it, especially if anything turns up in online resources.

Questionable-Hadrian-Ric-3c



At the time I thought it was a barbarous imitation. Still do.

The coin weighs 2.22g and measures 17x18mm. It is silver throughout but about 37% lighter than normal for Hadrian's late period (135-138)
The flan is too small for the die, and obscures the inscriptions on both sides. Nonetheless, the inscriptions correspond as follows:


The obverse inscription is unique for Hadrian and begins "[HAD]RIANVS AVG COS ... and could only conclude with "... III PP"

the reverse is not known for Hadrian but is associated for type and inscription with his successor Ant Pius in 144 AD (BMC 504) with the inscription "COS III DES IIII"**
[Pax draped, stg l; holding branch downward in extending r hand and cornucopiae in l.]

**DESignatus qualifies an individual who has been elected to future office but has not yet taken up the appointment. Most commonly encountered on the Imperial coinage on issues belonging to the end of the year, just prior to the emperor's assumption of a new consulship on January 1st (e.g. COS II DES III P P). --David Sear


This reverse corresponds to BMCRE 504; RIC 117; Strack 132; Seaby Silver II 187/8 for Ant Pius

Needless to say, this reverse does not belong with a denarius of Hadrian. However, the fact that it does fit in the early period of Hadrian's immediate successor opens the door for some kind of mix up. BMC classes the mint for the normal obverse as "Uncertain" under the general heading of "Eastern Mints"

Hybrids like this are usually an indication of unofficial minting.

What do you make of it?
May I please have a reply from someone?

Edited by lrbguy
01/20/2016 11:35 am
Pillar of the Community
maridvnvm's Avatar
United Kingdom
2100 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2016  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My immediate reaction is unofficial rather than official eastern but I am far from expert on the series. It would be interesting to see if the obverse could be die matched to something else ideally in Strack. This is based on the style being quite funky even for this series. Having said that some coins that are attributed to these eastern mints do push the boundaries of style quite a long way.

A response from Curtis would be the best bet.

Regards,
Martin
  Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 1,741Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.29 seconds to rattle this change. Forums