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Replies: 15 / Views: 4,899 |
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Valued Member
Canada
220 Posts |
I remember reading somewhere that there were approximately 50 million silver dollars minted ( perhaps someone could verify this, thanks!)
Has there ever been a reliable estimate of how many Silver Dollars have been melted down?
Given the amount of time and the high price of silver since 1967 one would think a very large number are now melted and gone forever. Any thoughts on this topic would be appreciated. Thank you as always!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
500 Posts |
1918: In 1918, an interesting problem plagued Congress - the United States government still had hundreds of millions of Morgan dollars in storage - minted 15 to 30 years previously. The US treasury was paying for storage of these coins yet had a silver shortage. Congress passed the Pittman Act in 1918, which led to melting 270 million of the dollars for use in subsidiary coinage and for sale to Britain, then a wartime ally. Silver interests secured legislation requiring the mint to later replace the melted silver dollars. Figures on the date and mint mark of the melted coins were not kept, so collectors do not have precise population reports. Almost half of all Morgans produced during their first run from 1878 to 1904 were melted. Certain dates seem virtually nonexistant. 1942: In World War II, the United States government again needed silver. Millions of silver dollars still sat in storage, apparently unwanted and gaining little interest from the numismatic community. The Silver Act of 1942 led to the melting of millions more silver dollars. Much of this silver was used for subsidiary coinage, then still made of the same 90% silver alloy. The fate of the Morgan dollars attracted little attention at the time; millions still sat in bank vaults and could be obtained simply by redeeming a silver certificate. And millions since then: By the early 1960's, rising silver prices caused many to hoard silver coinage and melt it since the coins' intrinsic silver value exceeded the face value. At that time, the dime, quarter, and half-dollar were still made of the same 90% silver, 10% copper alloy that had been used for almost 200 years. Old silver dollars were still available from government vaults at face-value. The mint first blamed collectors for the shortage, and ordered a date-freeze on all new coins for 1964. Soon however, the mint adopted a different strategy. In mid-1965, it switched new coin mintage of the dime and quarter to a copper-nickel clad alloy containing no silver. Half-dollars were made using a copper-nickel-silver clad alloy of only 40% silver. These changes ensured the face-value of the coins exceeded their bullion value and thus eliminated the financial motive to hoard new coinage. Old coins, dated 1964 and earlier, rapidly disappeared from circulation, and many were melted. Many silver dollars met the same fate. It is estimated that between the multiple round of meltings, less than 20% of the original mintage survives. Many once-common date coins became quite rare. In the last four decades, these coins have gained a following of their own. They have become one of the most visible and collected symbols of American coinage. For even the common dates, their numismatic value far exceeds the cost of the metal from which they are made.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1602 Posts |
Well, that was depressing.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5394 Posts |
Pretty sure the OP is referring to Canadian Silver Dollar melting. The answer is still bucket loads were melted. In the first melt of 1978- 1980 everything except for 1945, 47, 48 went to the scrap heap. I would venture a guess that well over 40 per cent of the original production is gone forever. Not to worry there are plenty still around. All it takes is a large cheque and an hour of your time at a major coin dealer and you would have a complete date set of Canadian Silver Dollars. Even in higher grade not a real problem except for one or two.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
I remember reading somewhere that there were approximately 50 million silver dollars minted ( perhaps someone could verify this, thanks!)
Yes that's correct, appx 54 million. But 35 million of that total was minted in the years from 1964 to 1967. In addition to the silver melts, after 1967 the Bank of Canada called back all silver coins sitting around from throughout the banking system, similar to today's alloy recovery program. Earlier, I'd expect a good portion of the more recent silver dollar issues never made it into general circulation. It became a cheap method of accumulating silver (as Coinfusion also writes about).
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Just a couple years ago, and to a smaller extent dealers had 5 gallon pails of common date silver dollars going to melt pot.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1316 Posts |
Can't say I hold the hold the governments (US or Canada) at fault for melting and reusing the silver where it was needed. If we had any other type of asset worth tens of millions of dollars collecting dust for decades, and it was needed for something current in a different form, we would be irate the government didn't transform it. Even after collectors now place a premium on these, most of the dates and mint marks are FAR from rare. Even the keys still exist by the thousands, if 10K+ plus, 100K+ for the plethora of commons. Quite frankly, this meltdown, probably did more good than anything in creating a sense of scarcity to drive up collectability. It's certainly not the government's job to protect collectability on something 100 years down the road in the off chance a group of people might eventually care.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts |
Collects82, you should research about the Canadian gold coins that were release by the mint a couple of years ago.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Collects52, I agree and I don't think anyone is holding any governments responsible. But the historical component of coinage and currency is an interesting aspect of collecting. Even if the coins hadn't been made of silver, they'd still have been pulled from circulation at some point otherwise new mintages would never be required (which continually earns govt revenue because it costs far less to mint than face value).
However in the 60s the reason behind the high mintage volumes of the Cdn silver dollar are somewhat of a mystery. Dollar bills were widely circulated, $1 coins were heavy and bulky.....
Edited by wildflowerAB 02/04/2016 10:48 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
Collects82, you should research about the Canadian gold coins that were release by the mint a couple of years ago.
A very fascinating topic, particularly questionable in regard to how the sale of the hoard was handled. Historically gold reserves serve to back the strength of the national currency that is issued by the Central Bank (In Canada, the Bank of Canada), similar to a form of insurance. Canada's 1912 - 1914 gold coins were a portion of our gold reserves, although the public was not aware. Perhaps of interest, In 2016 Canada now sits 99/100 on the list in percentage of gold reserves supporting our lowly loonie. Mexico, #30. United States #1. Edit to add link to gold.org document: http://www.gold.org/research/latest...old-reserves
Edited by wildflowerAB 02/04/2016 11:41 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
As an example at last weekends CAND show, a regular GTA dealer told me he purchased over 10 grand in these BOC gold coins, none of them looks better than a ms 60 or so off to the refiner, his comment this paid for the tables. He paid under bullion for these coins unless they are highly graded they become bullion value.
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
21614 Posts |
Quote: However in the 60s the reason behind the high mintage volumes of the Cdn silver dollar are somewhat of a mystery. Not really- It was a matter of supply and demand. When the USA stopped producing Silver Dollars in 1964, they looked North to buy Silver Dollars as a investment and bought them by the millions. I'll bet that more ended up in the States then Canada. Just look on ebay and see the quantity of uncirculated Silver Dollars for sale by American sellers.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
@john100 - do you know which dealer it was? I would pay a premium over melt for some of these BOC coins. Hate to see them go to waste...
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
I just got a hold of him, they already been sent out Monday, he says he is happy with the relationship with the refiner because he sends them all kinds of other precious metal items. You wouldn't miss any of these BOC coins mainly 1914, 15 ten dollars with lots of bag marks.
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Pillar of the Community
Taiwan
606 Posts |
The U.S. stopped minting Silver Dollars for the public in 1935 and Canada started minting Silver Dollars in 1935. So collectors in the U.S could still collect Silver Dollars, they just had to go north of the border for their supply The U.S. Mint produced 300,000+ Silver Dollars in 1964 but were never released and melted. Rumors exist that a few escaped the melting pot but have never surfaced for obvious reasons.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
It was a matter of supply and demand. When the USA stopped producing Silver Dollars in 1964, they looked North to buy Silver Dollars as a investment and bought them by the millions. I'll bet that more ended up in the States then Canada.
1967 silver dollar, the Canada Goose, its southerly migration routes and the end of silver.....coincidental? Maybe so but the symbolism is amusing.
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Replies: 15 / Views: 4,899 |
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