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Help!!! What Is This Coin Or Token

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TylersDad's Avatar
United States
18 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2005  04:37 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TylersDad to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Yes I have a coin thats says army navy on the front and has a drum and he word union below on the back can anyone tell me what this is ?

P.S There is no Year on the coin
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2005  09:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's quite likely a token I guess... some pictures will help... :)
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2005  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does it look like this one?
Help!!!-What-Is-This-Coin-Or-Token
Rest in Peace
Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2005  11:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sounds like a Civil War token, about the size of a cent, like the one ND posted; there's dozens of different types. Highly collectible, in my opinion, but they're too often overlooked.

Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2005  11:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are 6 basic designs featuring the drum and cannons such as described. These are patriotic civil war tokens, and have several different reverse slogans. All with this particular design are quite common for CWT's, but are quite collectable.
Depending on condition, they range from $7 to $25.

Hope that helps
Rest in Peace
Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2005  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The word "Union" is an identifying characteristic for certain CWTs. As far as I know (which isn't all that much about CWTs), they were produced only in the North. The South had such a copper shortage that it would have been very difficult to scrounge enough Cu (PI) to produce very many. The subject is very interesting, at least to me personally; I can remember finding at least one in circulation as recently as the 1950s.

Fred

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United States
2724 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2005  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Morgan Fred
I can remember finding at least one in circulation as recently as the 1950s.


You just spawned a great idea for me....Thanks! At each show we attend, I place many "collectable" coins into circulation, and placing a few CWT's for a monster store promotion is a wonderful idea.
So once the official announcement is made for our store opening, maybe everyone here will want to "plan" a vacation to the Tax Free shopping state.....
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TylersDad's Avatar
United States
18 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2005  12:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TylersDad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Alot I have been looking for info on this coin for 5 years> icant say thank you enough
Edited by TylersDad
10/25/2005 12:55 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2005  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by TylersDad

Thats it the same one that I have any idea of what it is worth?



Depending on condition, they range from $7 to $25
Rest in Peace
Morgan Fred's Avatar
United States
2684 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2005  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgan Fred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by national dealer


You just spawned a great idea for me....Thanks! At each show we attend, I place many "collectable" coins into circulation, and placing a few CWT's for a monster store promotion is a wonderful idea.
So once the official announcement is made for our store opening, maybe everyone here will want to "plan" a vacation to the Tax Free shopping state.....



I'll need driving directions.

Reminds me of a similar situation. About 25 years ago, San Juan Airlines serving WA State's San Juan Islands (SJ Co)wanted to make a point of the business's impact on the local economy. The owner paid all of his employees (some 30 IIRC) with two-dollar bills for a single payday. Two-dollar bills became quite common in the area for some weeks.

I will be very curious about the outcome of your promotion; it will prove interesting to find out how many CWTs are actually "recovered" and the effects on your new stores.

Fred

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United States
2724 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2005  3:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My thought was to advertise in the local newspapers that certain coins were placed into circulation, along with a "bring it in" special. If you have found one of the listed coins (insert list) bring it into the shop for a prize.
Also announce that "certain" coins were placed into circulation for "Collection purposes". I have been quietly stockpiling a few obsolete coins along with collector favorites just for this purpose.
I have a meeting with a local bank to pass out "foriegn currency" with deposits.

It is my hope to cause quite the stir within the community. I am still working on the idea of 1 special coin being placed out there simular to the 1922 Cent placed into the CoinFest event.

My thinking, (as of now) would be a semi key Liberty nickel, or another key in the Lincoln series. It would have to be a circulated example as to not devalue too much.

I am open to suggestions.....Had another thought..see forthcoming poll.
New Member
United States
44 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2005  03:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwtokenman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While there are 6 drum/Union dies, and 36 Army/Navy dies, there are only two possible die combinations that would match the OP's description. If the metal is copper, one id (299/350a) is common with an R-2 rating (2001-5000 known), and lists at $15 in Fine and $25 in Unc. The other (305/350a) is rather rare, with an R-9 (2-4 known) rating, which listed in Kanzinger's 2002 book at $600 in Fine and $1200 in Unc. The 299/350 was made in several metals in addition to copper, all of which are rare and valuable. The 305/350 was issued in copper only. Some of the metals, such as brass and copper-nickel can be mistaken to be copper if one is unfamiliar with their appearance. With the different metals, there are a total of 8 possible id numbers, only 1 of them is "common", the others all have pops of 20 or less. If you post pics, your token can be positively identified.
New Member
United States
44 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2005  03:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwtokenman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"... there's dozens of different types..."

There are over 10,000 different id numbers for cwts. I don't recall the specific number offhand, but something like 70 or 80 percent of cwt varieties have 20 or less known to exist.

A small number were issued in the South, but are typically scarce and highly valued.

I forgot to mention in the above post that some of the non-copper issues of 299/350 could realize prices in the thousands of dollars.
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United States
2724 Posts
 Posted 11/26/2005  09:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by cwtokenman
one id (299/350a) is common with an R-2 rating (2001-5000 known


My reference material lists this combination as R-1 which reflects the values that I have listed.

As I am aware of your specific knowledge in this area, I am interested in learning what reference material do you use.
New Member
United States
44 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2005  02:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwtokenman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I use four primary references for cwts - for Store Cards "U.S. Civil War Store Cards", Second edition, by George and Melvin Fuld. (1975)

For Patriotics "Patriotic Civil War Tokens" Fourth Revised edition, by George and Melvin Fuld. (1982)

Also for Patriotics "Die Photos & Fuld/Moore Listings Update of 4th Revised Edition of Patriotic Civil War Tokens" by George and Melvin Fuld. (1993)

For additional information on both types, as well as the only comprehensive price guide that I am aware of for cwts "The Civil War Token Collectors Guide" by Bryon Kanzinger. (2002) This is an excellent reference, as are the preceeding, but this one is written to be used in conjunction with the Fulds' books, not strictly as a stand alone reference.

These last three references all list the 299/350a token as rarity 2.

I also have "Civil War Tokens and Tradesmen's Store Cards" by George Hetrich and Julius Guttag. (Copyrighted 1924, Reprinted 1968). While a rather obsolete reference, some of the die photos have clearer, but smaller images than Fuld's. I mostly use it when considering tokens from old collections which were id'd before the Fuld system was instituted. This catalog does not provide rarity numbers.

The first cwt books I bought were the Fuld's little black books for Patriotic and Storecards. They were approximately 100 pages each and printed in the early '60s. IMO the Patriotic one is marginal at best (however, it does have a convenient cross reference for Fuld/H & G numbers) and the store card book is essentially worthless and I would not really recommend either of them to anyone. The Patriotic book shows the 299/350a as an R-2.

Rulau's "Standard Catalog of United States Tokens 1700-1900", 2nd, 3rd, & 4th editions are also in my library, and they each have a section for cwts. I will guess this is the reference you used, as the 299 die is listed as an R1, and the 350 die as an R2. If this is the reference you use for cwts, I can only say - DON'T! (except for Civil War cardboard pieces). In the preface to the cwt section, Rulau indicates that his cwt listing is far from complete as he did not wish for the cwt section of the book to be the dominating portion of this already large book. His listings of store cards, for example, only lists the most common example for any given merchant. I have picked up many a rare cwt that was misidentified as a common because Rulau's catalog was used to id the token. Some merchants issued over 200 varieties, yet Rulau only lists one.

I have additional references for other Civil War era exonumia (such as encased postage stamps, Sutler tokens, Confederate War Bonds, Indian and Post Trader tokens and paper currency). If you want those titles as well, let me know. Or if you (or anyone) want me to check on something for you, just let me know.
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