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Posted 12/01/2016 9:30 pm
alganbagerap You ask:
You may not agree, but the way the law reads it is illegal to sell a fantasy in the form of a coin which looks like currency but is NOT without being permanently marked COPY. All Numismatic items are divided into only two categories. Imitations and genuine numismatic items. All copies, fantasies, replicas, alterations, fakes, forgeries and every other word you choose to use are "imitations" under the law. They are actually prohibited by ebay. Only genuine items that are properly described can be sold on ebay. The entire section that formerly existed for "replicas, etc." was removed by ebay when they changed the rules.
Are ebay rules enforced? Not always, but unless they want to be held liable for not enforcing such rules they could find themselves identified as middlemen assisting counterfeiters in distributing imitations into commerce.
austrokiwi The entire thrust of your comments were at the outset and still remain that I was wrong to put out a warning on the forum without first asking the seller. You were horrified that I would do such a thing. My objection is to the way you assume I did little or no research before drawing my conclusions.
You say:
Perhaps I am over reacting to the wording but "on so little investigation" impugns not only my honesty and qualifications but concludes something you could in no way be privy to. How long did I spend before making the post?
I did, in my own opinion, absolutely adequate investigation to verify that this seller's posts were not just a couple innocent errors. There were multiple listings of imitations of various classes - 100s of them. They all followed the same pattern. I only posted a few examples and advised collectors to become familiar with this type of worthless material because it will start appearing elsewhere.
Again in my own opinion, the wording of the auctions and the content followed a pattern that is deceptive and is meant to confuse novice bidders. Remember I did this job for ebay for 6-8 hours a day for 5 or 6 days a week. I screened and removed hundreds of items per day. There was no ebay requirement to warn the sellers. I chose to do so when the sellers were obviously duped themselves and showed no past track record of similar sales. That happened one or two times a day at most. Contacting every seller would have prevented us from doing the job.
I submit that it was obvious this guy knew what he was selling. He has been doing it for a while. He buys, obviously in bulk directly from counterfeiters or middlemen and sells the material to US buyers without the items being marked as required by law. He is making a profit from gullible buyers who will find they were defrauded only when they attempt to sell their purchases.
The facts of the case are all the more certain from his replies. He takes no responsibility at all and believes US law does not apply to him. During my time at ebay, I became pretty adept at ebay rules and I also came to realize certain patterns of sales that divided the good sellers from the dangerous ones.
So I do not believe I was wrong at all. My conclusions about him were correct.
I am glad 600 members looked at the sales. This is exactly the kind of seller that does not belong on eBay-US. The kind of seller that is selling junk at a big markup.
I would also ask if you believe it is productive to send letters to people posting hundreds of inappropriate items in every single case. I would argue that these are exactly the guys you do not bother writing to.
Quote:
If a piece is a fantasy and imitates nothing that has ever been produced then surely COPY does not apply?
If a piece is a fantasy and imitates nothing that has ever been produced then surely COPY does not apply?
You may not agree, but the way the law reads it is illegal to sell a fantasy in the form of a coin which looks like currency but is NOT without being permanently marked COPY. All Numismatic items are divided into only two categories. Imitations and genuine numismatic items. All copies, fantasies, replicas, alterations, fakes, forgeries and every other word you choose to use are "imitations" under the law. They are actually prohibited by ebay. Only genuine items that are properly described can be sold on ebay. The entire section that formerly existed for "replicas, etc." was removed by ebay when they changed the rules.
Are ebay rules enforced? Not always, but unless they want to be held liable for not enforcing such rules they could find themselves identified as middlemen assisting counterfeiters in distributing imitations into commerce.
austrokiwi The entire thrust of your comments were at the outset and still remain that I was wrong to put out a warning on the forum without first asking the seller. You were horrified that I would do such a thing. My objection is to the way you assume I did little or no research before drawing my conclusions.
You say:
Quote:
My reaction was reflecting "horror I had at how easily you identified a person as a wrong doer on so little investigation.
My reaction was reflecting "horror I had at how easily you identified a person as a wrong doer on so little investigation.
Perhaps I am over reacting to the wording but "on so little investigation" impugns not only my honesty and qualifications but concludes something you could in no way be privy to. How long did I spend before making the post?
I did, in my own opinion, absolutely adequate investigation to verify that this seller's posts were not just a couple innocent errors. There were multiple listings of imitations of various classes - 100s of them. They all followed the same pattern. I only posted a few examples and advised collectors to become familiar with this type of worthless material because it will start appearing elsewhere.
Again in my own opinion, the wording of the auctions and the content followed a pattern that is deceptive and is meant to confuse novice bidders. Remember I did this job for ebay for 6-8 hours a day for 5 or 6 days a week. I screened and removed hundreds of items per day. There was no ebay requirement to warn the sellers. I chose to do so when the sellers were obviously duped themselves and showed no past track record of similar sales. That happened one or two times a day at most. Contacting every seller would have prevented us from doing the job.
I submit that it was obvious this guy knew what he was selling. He has been doing it for a while. He buys, obviously in bulk directly from counterfeiters or middlemen and sells the material to US buyers without the items being marked as required by law. He is making a profit from gullible buyers who will find they were defrauded only when they attempt to sell their purchases.
The facts of the case are all the more certain from his replies. He takes no responsibility at all and believes US law does not apply to him. During my time at ebay, I became pretty adept at ebay rules and I also came to realize certain patterns of sales that divided the good sellers from the dangerous ones.
So I do not believe I was wrong at all. My conclusions about him were correct.
I am glad 600 members looked at the sales. This is exactly the kind of seller that does not belong on eBay-US. The kind of seller that is selling junk at a big markup.
I would also ask if you believe it is productive to send letters to people posting hundreds of inappropriate items in every single case. I would argue that these are exactly the guys you do not bother writing to.
