Counterfeit Forums Locked

Okay, well, if there was a seller on ebay selling counterfeit $10 bills for $9 each, the secret service would be all over that. If a seller were selling fake St. Gauden's $20 coins, once again I believe they would be getting the attention of federal law enforcement. We are talking about a seller who is peddling altered United States currency at handsome prices.

I do understand, one or two every now and then might not be enough to get the attention it would take to put this guy in his place. However, if someone with prestige within numismatic circles started a public campaign against counterfeiting, they could easily call upon the collector community to inundate auction sites, the mint, the secret service - heck, their state general attorney - with letters. All I am saying is, someone here must know someone who is a coin collector and an attorney, or a federal officer. If we hope to preserve this hobby for long, someone will have to take initiative to lead a campaign against counterfeiting to the next level. It is not me, sorry.. and it is going to take, time, commitment, and sacrifice, because it appears that in not much time we will have a plague on our hands (if that is not in fact what this already is.)

I readily volunteer a share of my time and resources if need be. I cannot offer a whole lot, but I am willing to give to the cause, and I guarantee that behind the right organizer, many many others would readily give as well. There IS more we can do. When presented in just the right way, somebody IS going to pay attention.

ebay warns and penalizes small sellers that end auctions early.

Big sellers like GSC obviously auction under different rules.

Sad day for sure I really appreciated the time you guys were putting into this!

I suppose that means I won't be getting an account on ebay anytime soon (I wouldn't quite say "ever", because it could well turn out that either the nearby coin markets close down - or become limited to modern NCLT and the occasional overpriced rare old coin, as many shops already are - or the anti-counterfeit campaign goes back up; not sure which one is more likely).

Win counterfeit auctions.
Immediately after close report problem of counterfeit coin as reason for not paying.
You retain the right up to this point to leave negative feedback. Do so.
Seller can't leave a negative for a buyer and can't say ANYTHING bad about a buyer in feedback. If they do, report them. ebay will remove comment and give seller a "dog house" point. Three such points and they are suspended from selling.
ebay does need a human review for auction cancellation after close.
Have them deal with a few thousand of those a week and the fake sellers and ebay might just get a bit sick of all of those time consuming problems.

Bobby, have you discussed your decision to quit reporting counterfeit coins with your ebay contact? Or did you just quit cold turkey.

If the latter, I wonder if your ebay contact will notice.

Thanks for all you've done for us collectors bobby.
Too bad ebay places profit before integrity.
I guess it's to be expected.
Unlikely to change.

Moxking The only way to make this tactic work is to pay for the coin and have item in hand. Then you can file a claim for receiving a counterfeit and place a negative feedback AFTER receiving a refund. The in-house policy at ebay requires the buyer to submit proof of the item being bad - they do not accept photographic evidence alone or your statement as the buyer. Against big sellers they can ask for a written statement from an expert or a rejection from a TPG. Even a statement by the seller that the coin may not be genuine is not always adequate. The fact of the matter is that sometimes the seller does not know and calls a genuine coin a counterfeit. So ebay treats (selectively) what proof will be sufficient. The reason involves their ability to defend themselves against being sued by the seller for "illegal" actions that restrain their business (trade). Even nuisance lawsuits cost ebay a bunch and they bend over backward to avoid them.

An insurmountable problem for the buyer in the US is that the laws are different in places like China. These sales of foreign forged coins are 100% legal in China and protected by their laws. This is an issue for the US government to undertake. Calling John Kerry or Barak Obama may work.

You can not win with this tactic even with US re-sellers. There are no teeth in the US law. The law actually prohibits IMPORTING of these coins. The violation has already taken place for coins already in the US. If the seller is big enough and has lawyers - you will end up being the bad guy. The big sellers ARE TREATED DIFFERENTLY.

I remember a case that happened in Florida about 15 years ago. Customs had seized boxes of imported "numismatic forgeries" from China. These were placed in an abandoned property sale by customs and they were sold to the highest bidder without being stamped copy. Who to you take issue with there? Customs?

You might be able to punish a small time re-seller or someone who got duped once in a while - but really to what end? The big guys just import and sell 100 or 1,000 others for everyone stopped.

It is better for you to think of ebay like the owner of a parking lot where a bunch of briefcase coin dealers set up card tables and sell some good coins and some junk. Go in with your eyes open and your homework done.