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 Replies: 15 / Views: 2,842 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1049 Posts |
Began when and with what date? I ask this because, since coins were being produced did the "Blakesly Effect" always exist or did it start when coin production changed the procedure in how they were made?
*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. *** Edited by M_d_in_guy
03/05/2016 6:34 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9862 Posts |
Blanks were not rimmed for hammered coins or screw press coins. I think the first rimming machine along with the steam powered press was used by Boulton in about 1790.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
03/05/2016 4:40 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1049 Posts |
DBM, so do you think the Blakesly Effect has been around since then?
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
To produce a blakeslay effect a clipped planchet (raised rim blank), needs to be struck within a collar.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1049 Posts |
ty Sel for your reply.
So if a collar is needed to create a Blakesly Effect, when did collars start being used as part of coin production, I'm trying to get to the root of this. It would be cool to see the first coin that has ever displayed this effect. Date wise.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9862 Posts |
Collar does not produce the Blakesley effect, the upset mill (rimming machine) does. Collars were first used in about the mid 1500's. I believe you would have to look at coins and tokens struck by Boulton & Watt in the 1790's to find the first evidence of the Blakesely effect. Good luck! Clipped coins in those days meant devalued coins, and were totally unacceptable. From the glossary on this forum; Quote:
Blakesley effect
The weakness opposite the clip on a clipped planchet error coin. This occures during the upsetting process, because of the clip there is a lack in pressure to upset the rim directly opposite the clip. "Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
03/05/2016 5:26 pm
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Formerly nancyc
Australia
5385 Posts |
No way of knowing when the effect began, but it was named by a chap named Blakesly sometime in the 60's.
Another chap named Fred Weinberg may be able to offer up more info if you can contact him. Apparently he knew Blakesly.
life is a mystery to be lived not a problem to be solved
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1049 Posts |
So it's quite possible the Effect can date to the 1790's. You know Fred's a pretty busy guy lol, I'll send him a mail and see what he has in his archives.
Mail sent, when I get Fred's reply I'll share it.
Edited by M_d_in_guy
03/05/2016 6:05 pm
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Valued Member
United States
127 Posts |
To produce this effect, the coin must have an upturned rim. In theory the earliest possible US coin would be dated 1794. Coins of 1793 do not have enough of an upturned rim to show this effect. Also the die pressure would have to be taken into consideration. Coins struck on the post 1815 steam presses are more likely to have this effect.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1049 Posts |
DBM so in theory they can exist, just as errors and varieties do today with the ones that slipped by.....and went into circulation. To date it would be cool to see who has the oldest "Blakesly Effect" here on CCF. I think we would love to see what you have hidden away lol.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
DBM: point taken.
The question then devolves into:
'When were upsetting machines first used?'
The date provided by DBM seems to be about right.
Edited by sel_69l
03/05/2016 8:50 pm
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Moderator
 Canada
10456 Posts |
Quote:
To date it would be cool to see who has the oldest "Blakesly Effect" here on CCF. I have a Canadian Victorian large cent with a clip and Blakesley effect... 1900. I also have an Edward VII large cent as well, from 1903, but it is a straight clip and very subtle.  "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1049 Posts |
Ty for the pic SPP, what is the oldest coin you have seen with a Blakesly?
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Moderator
Canada
10456 Posts |
My bias is Canadian stuff, so a pre-confederation token would probably be the oldest one I have seen, early 1850s...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1049 Posts |
I did receive a reply from Fred Weinberg, as follows. Jon, I'd have to say early Half Cent or large cent clips are the oldest US coins with the Blakesley Effect that I've seen. Fred |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1980 Posts |
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Replies: 15 / Views: 2,842 |
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Posted 03/05/2016 4:31 pm
