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An Interesting Early Copper Grading Exercise: 1793 Flowing Hair Cent

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GERMANICVS's Avatar
Germany
1849 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  04:45 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add GERMANICVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Obviously impaired with many pits on both obverse and reverse. However, a coin I never regretted buying. It has a very nice color and smooth surfaces in the areas that remain unaffected.

I am myself not too sure how to grade it - and would greatly love to hear your opinions.

BTW, it is an S-9, commonest 1793 Flowing Hair cent, R-2.

Thanks in advance for all comments/opinions.

An-Interesting-Early-Copper-Grading-Exercise:-1793-Flowing-Hair-Cent

An-Interesting-Early-Copper-Grading-Exercise:-1793-Flowing-Hair-Cent

An-Interesting-Early-Copper-Grading-Exercise:-1793-Flowing-Hair-Cent

An-Interesting-Early-Copper-Grading-Exercise:-1793-Flowing-Hair-Cent
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kanga's Avatar
United States
5825 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At that time getting planchets for coining was hard.
I know even by 1811 the US was still importing them from England and they weren't very good (porous along with other problems).
If that's the problem then your coin should grade without being labeled details/genuine, i.e., it has original surfaces.
But that's going to take a pro to make the call.
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GERMANICVS's Avatar
Germany
1849 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  09:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GERMANICVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is an interesting thought you have there, kanga, I hadn't thought about that but it does seem plausible.
The good quality of the non-affected areas of the planchet do suggest it may have been pitted 'as-struck', and before leaving the mint.
As you say, though, it would take an expert to determine/prove that.
Valued Member
146 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  12:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dipper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fine, damaged & corroded
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
XF-40 sharpness, dark fields with lighter brown details, serious post strike pitting on obv mostly concentrated in the field behind the bust, similar pitting on the rev but more evenly distributed. Some minor rim/edge damage. Net VG-7.
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  2:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, that's one of those that could get a high (EF) Details grade, but as Conder points out, severe details netting it way down. But I'm with you, for the right price, I'd never regret buying that one either.
Valued Member
146 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  2:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dipper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At that time getting planchets for coining was hard.
I know even by 1811 the US was still importing them from England and they weren't very good (porous along with other problems).
If that's the problem then your coin should grade without being labeled details/genuine, i.e., it has original surfaces.
But that's going to take a pro to make the call.

The good quality of the non-affected areas of the planchet do suggest it may have been pitted 'as-struck', and before leaving the mint.

Just something for you guys to consider: It is very true that the planchets were often of poor quality; however, when you see "selective corrosion" as on the first "S" of states, that and the "green" color of "active corrosion" inside the "hits" is a good indication that the coin is corroded. Also there are no "original" surfaces left on this coin. Note the thin black oxidation. Finally, when the Large cent collectors refer to a porous surface it is on a much more minute scale.

Also notice that the obverse rim has been repaired - especially at 9 O'clock(file marks).
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
United States
4337 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe it to be Very Fine Details. I think EF is overzealous on this coin. Its very original and pitting aside, a lovely coin.
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cipster's Avatar
United States
2362 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cipster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Germanicvs - I always enjoy seeing the incredible coins in your collection and this is another beauty. The 1793 is missing in my large cent collection and perhaps I won't ever have one, but I can enjoy seeing yours. I'm not smart enough to grade it but see that it is so beautiful. Perhaps lady liberty had some teen age acne and it will go away in a few years? Ok, kidding but I love the coin and thanks for sharing.
Member ANA and EAC

"You got to lose to know how to win".
Dream On by Aerosmith
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thecoinguy1964's Avatar
United States
1307 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  6:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thecoinguy1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd welcome that coin into my book set any day of the week. The coin is in excellent condition,but I wouldn't call that corrosion.
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United States
61 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Precious Mental to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
She's a Beauty.
I guess it's the nature of the design, the hair looks wind blown, and the focal point is her face,- it appears to me, that the 'impairments' are swept away behind her and really don't interfere with what catches my eye.
The right 65% of the obverse is the 'look at me' part.
Same with the reverse, just so much of the eye pleasing stands out.
I'm sure the color of your coin helped that a lot, just a great looker.
Edited by Precious Mental
03/08/2016 8:51 pm
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Moe145's Avatar
United States
8904 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  9:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moe145 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with everyone's posts: This is a glorious coin! Amazing detail with pits in the copper due to, but I agree with Kanga, the inferior quality of the copper the USA used at the time.

I'm not sure how the Professional Graders would grade this, but I, personally, would grade this coin VF-20.

I think the pits are from the original copper deficiency so I don't think this should be a "details" coin.
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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  10:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think this coin has EF details.
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ArrowsAndRays's Avatar
United States
1655 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2016  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ArrowsAndRays to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wonderful piece of history - a highlight of any collection.
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TJsCoins's Avatar
United States
3229 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2016  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TJsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
[quote]She's a Beauty.
I guess it's the nature of the design, the hair looks wind blown, and the focal point is her face,- it appears to me, that the 'impairments' are swept away behind her and really don't interfere with what catches my eye.
The right 65% of the obverse is the 'look at me' part.
Same with the reverse, just so much of the eye pleasing stands out.
I'm sure the color of your coin helped that a lot, just a great looker./quote]
[quote]XF-40 sharpness, dark fields with lighter brown details, serious post strike pitting on obv mostly concentrated in the field behind the bust, similar pitting on the rev but more evenly distributed. Some minor rim/edge damage. Net VG-7./quote]

I would love to have that coin! Bravo!
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GERMANICVS's Avatar
Germany
1849 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2016  1:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GERMANICVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, everybody for your interesting comments.
As mentioned, this coin is a bit of a puzzle: severely pitted, yes, but otherwise good surface quality (no corrosion or graininess) in areas where it is not pitted.
PMD, or poor original planchet quality? I guess we will never know.
Whatever the case, I agree with your assessment and grade her VF35 details, net VG8.
Edited by GERMANICVS
03/09/2016 1:11 pm
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