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How Do Carbon Spots Affect Grading For Copper Coins?

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kookoox10's Avatar
United States
1054 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2016  01:23 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add kookoox10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have a bulk submission of various 50's and 60's Lincoln cents heading out this week. One of them, a beautiful 1951 wheatie, has a few carbon spots. Based off of some of your experiences with submitting these types of coins, would they come back at a lower grade regardless of clean fields and devices? Would a 66 come back a grade lower, etc?

Thanks!
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2016  07:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HopefulOne to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Kookoox10, I'm curious as to reading what answers you get. Great question, thanks. Good luck on your grades!
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2016  07:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I recently sent a Brit Indian copper coin into PCGS for grading and it was a "Shoe In" for a MS65 grade But it had some carbon spotting.
It was absolutely NO surprise to Me that it came back with a MS64RD grade.
So my short answer is Yes carbon spots Do affect the grade given
Rest in Peace
T-BOP's Avatar
United States
18456 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2016  08:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know about TPG on carbon spots, but if I did my own grading I would lower it by at least one grade . To me carbon spots are a big distraction on gem copper.
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moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2016  10:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not only does it affect the grade, especially with NGC, if the spotting is significant it might get you an environmental damage, meaning you spent $23 or so for a coin worth one cent.
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Susuman's Avatar
United States
595 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2016  08:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susuman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My experience has been with Proof 1937, 1940 and 1942 Lincoln Wheat Cents sent in to PCGS. Assuming no bumps or scratches, cents completely free of any carbon spots come back MS-66, ones with a few spots starting (almost like a stain) come back MS-65, and ones with a couple very tiny spots come back as MS-64. I don't know how well statistics would bear this out, but it seems consistent with my submissions.
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billjones's Avatar
United States
1499 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2016  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billjones to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To "carbon spots" are just like a scratch, maybe even worse. They lower the grade at least a point if they are not too bad. They can hurt you a lot more if they are big, or there are too many of them. As moxking said, you can end up with cent in a slab that worth a cent or whatever the going price is for junk coins in a slab is these days.

The worst case for carbon spots was a 1963 cent that was in a PCGS PR-70 Ultra Cameo holder that had a number of spots that had formed on the piece in the holder. There is no way PCGS would have graded the coin at the level if the spots had been on the piece before it went into the holder. The coin sold for over $40,000 in a FUN Heritage auction. If the coin had been cracked out it was worth about $10. A couple of years later the same coin cropped up in another FUN Heritage auction. Once more the price went to 5 figures. Why? Registry points! It was "the finest known." Collectors were making cracks about the coin on PCGS blog. Finally PCGS bought the coin to avoid further embarrassment.
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