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 Replies: 19 / Views: 3,442 |
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Valued Member
United States
190 Posts |
I have a low grade 1811 in VG+ with corrosion. I was trying to trade it for credit at a recent coin show without success. I tried with three dealers selling 1909s, in much worse conditions. One dealer had an 1809 in AG condition that was cleaned and damaged for $109. I asked $60 in credit for my 1811 towards the purchase of one of his other coins. He refused and offered me $15. Well, I was pretty disgusted to say the least. I pointed out that he had an 1809 in much worse shape for sale at $109. He said the 1809 was very rare and the 1811 was not. I said, how is that possible when the 1809 has a mintage of 200,000 and the 1811 has a mintage of 220,000. I also pointed out that only one die was used to make all the 1809's and so all 200,000 were as the 1811 was made from two dies thus splitting the mintage for each variety below 200,000 each. For those of you who do not know, the 1811 comes in two Sheldon Varieties or better known from the Red Book as 1811 (Normal Date) and 1811 (11 over 10). The point here is that both dates have a very similar mintage and are key dates in equal demand. You cannot complete a Classic Head Large Cent collection without having an 1809, 1811, and 1811 (11 over 10) in the set. In my mind the 1811 is logically rarer because you need two to complete the set. It also has a very similar mintage as the 1809. Am I missing something here? The war of 1812 could have resulted in the melting of Large Cents, but both 1809 and 1811 coins would have been melted down if that was the case. Why is the 1809 considered rarer? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Mintages in the early years do not always reflect the actual numbers of coins for a given date. Often during those early years dies from a previous year would continue to be used in the following year if they were still in good shape. The 1809 has always been harder to locate than the 1811 and has long been recognized as one of the fourth tougher date to find in the early dates and the toughest Classic head. Even if it isn't really scarcer than the 1811, the long reputation it has will keep it higher priced.
Unless your 1811 is severely corroded a $15 price is silly.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
 The 1809 does trade for more than the 1811. And $15 does sound low for a VG classic head. Unless the problems (Corrosion) is very bad. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8515 Posts |
Can you post a pic of your 1811 ?
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
I agree. Pictures would help tell us what you were trying to get trade credit for.
Lower grade coins in just about any denomination are not something most dealers are going to get too excited about because the ONLY times they can sell them is if it's a new collector, or someone on such a budget that it's all they can afford.
It doesn't take long in the coin game to learn to wait for a better grade when you have better funds and to take your dog for another walk in the mean time.
Often, lower end coins sit in inventory FOREVER.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1272 Posts |
both years worth considerably more than $15 regardless of the grade. just look at ebay |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
True, but we haven't seen the coins in question. After 200 years, I guess you just have to go with the flow. Large cents are a big business and base values are well established. pasasap - in any event -  to the CCF! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
1809 S280 (only die pair) is actually valued higher than 1811 S287 (non-overdate) despite both coins being R2.
This proceeds through all grade levels from AG to MS.
A look at the CC for the two dates might clarify:
1809 CC (2014) Finest known MS63, only 4 known MS examples in the census, and everything #10 and below is XF or worse.
1811 CC (2014) Finest known MS65, the first 6 coins are all MS, and there are plenty of AU's below that.
What this means is that there are fewer 1809's in any given condition vs. 1811's in that same condition. This creates what is known as "condition scarcity", where despite two coins being roughly "equally rare" on paper, it is easier to find higher grade examples of one than the other.
In this case, 1809 cents are tougher to find in a given grade than 1811 cents at the same grade. That is why 1809 carries a premium over 1811; and why that premium increases quite a bit as the condition reaches XF and above.
That being said, the (relative) availability of 1811 vs 1809 might discourage dealers from buying 1811's in lower grades when there are plenty of nicer examples available.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
when there are plenty of nicer examples available. Plenty is a relative term. There really aren't that many nice examples of classic head cents even for the common dates. It is a lot easier to find nice draped bust cents and matron head cents than nice classic heads. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Try different coin shows. Must might get different information and prices.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4415 Posts |
There's a good deal of sage information about the classic head large cents unfolding in this thread. This type has long been among my favorite coppers, given that decent examples, even in the lower grades, are so difficult to locate. To me, it's the thrill of the hunt.
Even without the OP's pics, it does seem to me that he may have been low-balled with the $15 offer. The market for coins is generally soft right now, and dealers are understandably antsy. Many dealers are now sitting on piles of stagnant stock; especially so, the lower grade material. Dealers are always anxious to buy a coin that's a quick-flip. This may somewhat explain why the OP's 1811 "filler" didn't attract a more reasonable offer. Having long looked for the 1809's, myself, I can firmly say that one is far more likely to encounter the 1811's in dealer stock.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5828 Posts |
Try shopping around |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Plenty is of course relative, but I can tell you with some degree of certainty that it is easier to find 1811s in VF or better than 1809's in the same grade. Supply is scarce, of course, but demand doesn't fluctuate all that much either.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1849 Posts |
Well, I had relatively little trouble finding my 1811 (VF or so), and it took me a few more years until I found a suitable 1809 for a reasonable price.
The 1809 is lower grade than the 1811, and it cost me about the same.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
I asked $60 in credit for my 1811 towards the purchase of one of his other coins. He refused and offered me $15 If you think your coin is worth $60 then just sell it on ebay and take the $60 with you next time . $60 in cold hard cash is a lot more useful than $60 in credit any day  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1499 Posts |
When I was kid collector I came across two 1911 large, one overdate and one normal, that I found in old hoards. I never saw an 1809.
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Replies: 19 / Views: 3,442 |
Posted 03/25/2016 12:13 pm
