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Vote The Land Free Counterstamp On 1853 With Arrows Seated Liberty Quarter

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living-in-the-past's Avatar
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 Posted 04/10/2016  4:33 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add living-in-the-past to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

Vote-The-Land-Free-Counterstamp-On-1853-With-Arrows-Seated-Liberty-Quarter

Vote-The-Land-Free-Counterstamp-On-1853-With-Arrows-Seated-Liberty-Quarter

I recently acquired the pictured Vote the Land Free counterstamped 1853 with Arrows Seated Liberty quarter Love Token from a stamp dealer who acquired it as part of a stamp collection. I would like to know:

1. Your thoughts on it's authenticity. I know it's date of 1853 puts it beyond the 1844 time frame. To my untrained eye, the counterstamp does look comparable to authentic pieces.

2. If it does have a chance of being authentic, rarity and potential value.

Thank you.
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fioti's Avatar
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 Posted 04/10/2016  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fioti to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No idea of worth. There'sa a crap-ton of references, if you goog it.
Apparently, the best & most popular of American political counterstamps.





Vote-The-Land-Free-Counterstamp-On-1853-With-Arrows-Seated-Liberty-Quarter
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living-in-the-past's Avatar
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 Posted 04/10/2016  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add living-in-the-past to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for your response. I am familiar with the on-line resources. However, most where produced in 1844 with a few outliers produced later. 1853 is 9 years later, quite a gap. Interested in peoples thoughts on authenticity and I guess, if authentic, it may be a unique piece? The only one with this counter stamp on a 1853 Seated Liberty quarter love token?
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MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 04/10/2016  6:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Give him some time to see this Exoguy is well-versed in counterstamps and may have some insight on this piece.


-MV
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ChildOfTheWheat's Avatar
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 Posted 04/10/2016  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ChildOfTheWheat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
if authentic, it may be a unique piece?

It was probably produced with a few other coins at the same time (10+ would be my guess). However, it might be one of the only SURVIVING examples.
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ArrowsAndRays's Avatar
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 Posted 04/10/2016  7:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ArrowsAndRays to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is the first 1853 quarter I've seen (in 40 years of collecting them) with the free Soil Party counterstamp. If I recall correctly there are post-'44 examples of coins, mostly cents.

Authentic? Sure. Real coin, real love token, real counterstamp. Value? I wouldn't pay more than $20 for this coin. YMMV.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 04/10/2016  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the CCF, living-in-the-past ... Quite an interesting post, this!

From my perspective, counterstamps in general are among the most intriguing and mysterious numismatic items to be had. This posting certainly accentuates my opinion.

While there are known, modern-made fantasy pieces of the VOTE THE LAND FREE c/s, I do believe that this one, on an 1853 quarter, was inflicted by the original stamp. It appears to thoroughly match in size, letter positioning and style.

Unlike the case with 99.99% of counterstamps, the original die punch still exists. Thus, it's certainly plausible that this quarter could have been stamped anytime, from 1853 on. It's not inconceivable that someone could have later demonstrated or simply tested the use of this die upon the 1853 quarter, years after the original intent of the slogan. Then too, one of Lincoln's 1860 political slogans had to do with "free soil", and perhaps someone back then thought to resurrect and re-purpose the counterstamp? The mind reels ... When I first heard about the existence of this original die punch, I hoped that someone would slightly alter it so as to make its being susequently used in some stealth fashion far less likely.

There are cases of counterstamps that were applied to coins years after the original merchant died. This is not unusual but not a common occurrence, either. Such was the case with a few silversmiths, whose hallmark dies were likely passed along to their heirs.

IMHO ... This piece is authentic and the c/s and the engraving likely date to the nineteenth century. It's my guess that the counterstamp preceded the engraving. The metal flow from the hole and numerous pock marks cause me to suspect that to be the case. Also, the engraving likely obliterated the damage done to that side of the coin when the stamp was applied.

As to worth, it's anybody's guess. On the plus side, host coins that are atypical, even those with relatively common counterstamps, tend to command a premium. Those on early bust coins tend to be most desired and be more highly valued by collectors. A few years ago, I saw a counterstamped, common date, Liberty nickel with a cutlery mark sell for well over $700. In my estimation, it was worth maybe $100, tops. When two folks seriously want a numismatic item, auction prices can skyrocket.

This coin is doubly intriguing, as it boasts both a love token and a desirable counterstamp. The only negative I see is that the counterstamp is not the proper political vintage. Personally, I'd guesstimate a worth of $300 which is about double the price of what this slogan fetches on large cents. Then too, a serious collector of love tokens might drive the price up further.

I'll offer an across-the-board comment on rarity. IMHO, all early counterstamps are rare, relatively speaking. There are many thousands of unique, one-of-a-kind, counterstamped pieces out there. There are many reasons why this is the case. To me, that is a small yet appealing aspect of collecting counterstamps ... having a piece that is the only one known.


Edited by ExoGuy
04/10/2016 9:07 pm
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living-in-the-past's Avatar
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 Posted 04/10/2016  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add living-in-the-past to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to all for your responses. Exoguy, I sincerely appreciate your expert opinion and information. For now, it will stay in my collection. Thanks again.
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billjones's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2016  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billjones to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Q. David Bowers has written that these "VOTE THE LAND FREE" counterstamp pieces were not connected with Martin Van Buren's 1848 third party run for the presidency. He believes that these were issued as part of the agenda for the National Reform Association (NRA). This movement was composed of a coalition of 19th century radical groups, which included the Working Man's Party, the National Trades Union and the Locofoco wing of the Democratic Party.

Their goal was to break up large estates and have public lands given to the people. Hence the slogan, "VOTE THE LAND FREE." Their ideas did get some play from the major parties. During the Lincoln administration, the Homestead Act was passed and signed into law. In exchange for working the land (165 acres) for a specified number of years, homesteaders won the title to it. The trouble was a lot of people found it to be tough going, and many of them were not able to stick it out.

The trouble with the 1853 quarter which is the host coin for this counterstamp is the date. I can't find any references where pieces were counterstamped that late. According to Rulau, all of the know pieces were dated in the mid 1840s. I'm not saying that this piece is a fabrication; I'm just saying that it needs more research.

Here is the piece that is in my collection, the usual counterstamped large cent. I bought this when it was thought that these pieces were issued on behalf of the 1848 Van Buren campaign.

Vote-The-Land-Free-Counterstamp-On-1853-With-Arrows-Seated-Liberty-Quarter
Edited by billjones
04/13/2016 3:36 pm
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2016  4:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A pleasing specimen you have there, billjones. Like yours, my "Vote the Land Free" counterstamps are all on large cents, too. What I like most about the OP's piece is that it challenges our understanding of this issue, its use.

Here's an 1860 Lincoln campaign medal that references the "Free Homes for Free Men" issue on the reverse. Whether the then, 1860, possessor of the "Vote the Land Free" die might have stamped the OP's 1853 quarter during that campaign is anyone's guess. It's an intriguing scenario though, and the mysteries that counterstamps often present has long fueled my fascination for them.


Vote-The-Land-Free-Counterstamp-On-1853-With-Arrows-Seated-Liberty-Quarter

Vote-The-Land-Free-Counterstamp-On-1853-With-Arrows-Seated-Liberty-Quarter

Speaking from experience, I can honestly say that, when researching counterstamps, I've encountered far more dead ends than not. However, my hundreds of successes have encouraged me to press on ... Fun stuff, for this oldtimer!
Edited by ExoGuy
04/13/2016 4:23 pm
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billjones's Avatar
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 Posted 04/13/2016  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add billjones to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is another 1860 campaign Lincoln piece that refers to "free homes for free men." I have pretty large collection of Lincoln tokens.

Vote-The-Land-Free-Counterstamp-On-1853-With-Arrows-Seated-Liberty-Quarter Vote-The-Land-Free-Counterstamp-On-1853-With-Arrows-Seated-Liberty-Quarter
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 Posted 05/02/2016  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VTLF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is an important discovery. And from a stamp collection, no less.

I would agree with what others have said. That denominations and date are both an anomaly, so much so that I would suggest that some dedicated research might be warranted.

The usage of the counterstamp is so unusual that I would suggest it may be part of the "love token" message and not just coincidental to it; if you were going to pay someone to add fancy engraving why would you use a "damaged" coin unless that counterstamp was part of the intended memento? It might even be a watch fob or other personal memento, so I would not necessarily limit myself assumptions about how this was used. The engraved side does not look overly-feminine, so it may not have been a love token at all.

Another thing is the wear pattern on the Seated Liberty figure. The wear (or at least most of it) seems to be underlying to the counterstamp. In other words, this coin may have been worn down prior to the counterstamp being applied (which was definitely done before the engraving). Take a look and decide how much difference there is in wear between the counterstamp and the host coin. If you estimate how long it would take a coin from 1853 to look like that, then you might conclude that an 1853 coin with that much wear might have been in circulation for several or more years prior to being counterstamped. That could easily push the date of the counterstamp to the Civil War era, and maybe the message on this particular coin applied to slavery.

I think the actual counterstamp and NRA archive are at the Kansas Historical Society, and perhaps they have some information about who donated the archive (and counterstamp) and/or who some top members of the organization were. If you can decipher the initials on the engraved side, I would see if any of those match any of the names they might be able to provide. For that matter, if you can confirm that the counterstamp punch was at the KHS prior to the estimated date of this counterstamp, I would look in to the possibility that someone there created it.

A few years ago paid $200 in an ebay auction for a very decent example of a common date cent with this counterstamp, so I am sure yours would go for a lot more than that. If you can turn up any details on who the original owner might have been, that would just add more to the desirability (and value).
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 05/02/2016  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to the CCF, VTLF ... Vote The Land Free, indeed!

You've made some interesting and thoughtful commentary about this piece. There may well be a connection between the OP's coin and the KHS. Perhaps, a footprint could be found among the paperwork at the KHS. It's a longshot, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.


Quote:
The engraved side does not look overly-feminine, so it may not have been a love token at all.


IMHO, this statement is a non sequitur. Love tokens were made as tokens of affection, regardless of gender. One piece that I had many years ago was presented to a grandfather by his grandson, and the words "Love Token" were actually engraved thereon. The host coin was a Liberty Seated Half.

The thought that this piece may have been created as a watch fob is quite plausible. Perhaps, the owner was once involved in the VTLF movement? Perhaps, he once possessed the dies? Whereas worn coins made excellent hosts upon which to apply counterstamps, higher grade coins of the latter nineteenth century often fell victims to the engravers of love tokens.

Unless my eyes fail me, as they sometimes do, the love token initials are B-C-E. ?

As to the "importance" of this piece, that would best be determined by any inroads in research. I surely find it interesting and intriguing, to say the least, but important? Time will tell. For what it's worth, I have but one counterstamp in my own collection that I suspect is perhaps historically important, and that story may never be proven.
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 Posted 05/02/2016  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VTLF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is a good perspective on Love Tokens - it is perhaps my own bias and misconception that love tokens were intended for a female recipient. But, as you state, that was not necessarily the case.

As to the importance of the discovery, each person can make their own assessment, but in my mind an apparently unknown denomination struck well after the normal date range of known coins (assuming this is true - I am not sure what the known date range is) would qualify as a significant/important discovery, at least to those tracking the counterstamp. If it is correct that this is a unique denomination, and if it is a significant outlier in regard to date, then the proverbial book on these counterstamps needs to be rewritten. For the reasons I gave, I suspect this coin may have been struck well after 1853, so that would make it a significant anomoly and great mystery.

One thing about the VOTE THE LAND FREE counterstamps that has always fascinated me is the consistency. As far as I know (and I am not an expert on them) they are fairly consistent in regard to usage (large cents) and placement (obverse). Aside form the variation in dates that might be expected if someone were pulling coins out of pocket change, there is not much variation that I am aware of. Until now....
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 05/02/2016  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Counterstamps on silver coins generally appear to be more prominent, more visible than those on copper coins. As the silver love tokens were keepsakes, there's a strong possibility that this rendering of VTLF on a holed, silver coin was likewise part and parcel of the keepsake.

Regarding placement of the VTLF counterstamps, note that they typically encompass the word LIBERTY on the headband and are generally aligned with the obverse ... but, not always.

While I posted that first pic of an 1860 Lincoln token as having a possible connection to the original intent of the OP's counterstamp, that's simply one of many possibilities. While the heyday of counterstamping was the 1850's, it's quite likely that the OP's coin was stamped decades later.
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