Overstruck 2 Kopek Catherine II Over 4 Kopek Peter III - Lettered Edge?

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january1may Pillar of the Community Russian Federation 5173 Posts	Posted 05/05/2016 10:45 am I recently bought a nice (well, reasonably nice, it's rather worn, and apparently a cleaned MD find) example of a Catherine II 2 kopek overstruck over a Peter III 4 kopek. Now, the type itself is apparently common enough, but it seems that my example is the (again, apparently) much rarer "lettered edge" variety. Specifically, while I cannot actually read the edge lettering (it's not that well preserved), there are nearly-regular protrusions all over the edge (24 of them specifically), which fits a lettered edge but no other variety. In particular, the symbol count fits a known 4 kopek edge lettering version (that of Yekaterinburg). I think the mintmark on the overtype is also EM (Yekaterinburg mint), though I'm not entirely confident. The date, sadly, is invisible among the undertype details (or, at least, I do not know precisely enough where to look for it). However, apparently, assorted lettered edge varieties also existed for other copper types (not only the 4 kopek). So, on the balance of probabilities, do you think that the coin I bought is actually overstruck over a lettered edge 4 kopek, or acquired its (probably) lettered edge in some other way; and, does it make the coin itself in any way rarer? (I agree it is probably impossible to say definitely; what I'm asking is which scenario seems more likely.) Report this Post to the Staff

gxseries Pillar of the Community Australia 3831 Posts	Posted 05/05/2016 11:08 am The reason why you have a lettered edge is because the original host coin actually had a lettered edge to start off with. This is with coins struck in between 1757 - 1762. Of course, this is not common to start off with. This is overstruck in 1762 as 4 kopek and then overstruck again. It is perfectly normal to find coins that are overstruck twice. To my knowledge, there is a coin that was overstruck FOUR times, making it excessively rare. I made a page with Russian overstruck coin site a while back which may be of interest: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/rus_i...erstruck.htm My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm Regularly updated at least once a month. Report this Post to the Staff
january1may Pillar of the Community Russian Federation 5173 Posts	Posted 05/05/2016 11:56 am Quote: The reason why you have a lettered edge is because the original host coin actually had a lettered edge to start off with. Said original host coin being what, exactly? The coin I have is a Catherine II coin struck over a Peter III coin. I admit that it is perfectly possible that the latter was in turn struck over an earlier coin (though I cannot see any attributable traces of such, aside from perhaps said lettered edge). If so, would that actually make it rarer? Report this Post to the Staff
gxseries Pillar of the Community Australia 3831 Posts	Posted 05/05/2016 12:00 pm This: May be able to identify the underlying host coin if you post a photo. My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm Regularly updated at least once a month. Report this Post to the Staff
january1may Pillar of the Community Russian Federation 5173 Posts	Posted 05/05/2016 1:56 pm ...I think I should go buy some more cheap large 2 kopeks. It's apparently a fascinating denomination, and, in lower grades, not really expensive either. I wanted to find a comparison coin to figure out how large should a 2 kopek be normally, and the only other 2 kopek I could find was an 1758 coin I bought about a year ago (for under a dollar, as I recall)... except it also had strange letters that didn't belong. I almost thought it was a double strike (because I couldn't fit the letters to anything), then I thought, doesn't that one line not belong either? Oh, that's a wing, and that one here must be the clouds, and then the letters are just in the right position to be the date on a cloud kopek. Or, in this case, the mintmark (a Saint-Petersburg one, apparently). The edge is the "reticulated" version here, but this doesn't mean anything (edges were changed in that particular restriking). There are some lines consistent with an underlying cross 5 kopek, but they're faint enough that it's hard to say. I suppose I should shove the coin above in my 1 kopek type set, because I probably couldn't afford an actual cloud kopek. And, as I said, go hunt for more cheap 2 kopeks on Saturday. Edited by january1may 05/05/2016 1:58 pm Report this Post to the Staff
january1may Pillar of the Community Russian Federation 5173 Posts	Posted 05/05/2016 2:37 pm And just in case: my other 2 kopek purchase (the 1757 with the ludicrously large 37mm flan but no other overstrike features I could find when buying) turned out to also be a cloud kopek overstrike (the part I initially mistook for a line from a cross 5 kopek was actually a wing). Sadly it's way too corroded to say anything further. Report this Post to the Staff
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