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Please Grade This 1921-S Morgan

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 Posted 05/25/2016  5:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add andywoj00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Thank you.

Please-Grade-This-1921-S-Morgan

Please-Grade-This-1921-S-Morgan
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
United States
4883 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2016  5:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For the eagle's breast to be that smooth, it's certainly seen substantial circulation, but probably still makes XF40. Not that for this issue there's likely even a dollar's difference in value from high VF to low AU.
Colligo ergo sum
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fenton's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2016  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll say VF-35 with an extremely weak strike. Unusual looking Morgan.
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MontCollector's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2016  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MontCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm at VF-35
Rest in Peace
dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2016  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What a very odd Morgan. The level of wear on the cotton Bolls suggest a minimum grade of EF45 maybe AU50. The late die state indicated by the metal flow wear from the date digits to the rim, much like the Bust Half series, one would expect many die cracks, but there appears to be none.
Edited by dave700x
05/25/2016 9:12 pm
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2016  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin looks wrong from every aspect. Features are distorted or oversized, the strike is insanely weird, nothing looks like it should, the mintmark is too large, eagle's head is all wrong, motto is wrong, etc.

Even if Struck Through Grease or with significant die separation (e.g. a trial or adjustment strike) would not explain this one.

Absolutely bizarre coin.

The only other thing I can think of is metal spread due to extensive and highly abrasive mechanical polishing.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
05/25/2016 9:28 pm
Valued Member
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441 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2016  9:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andywoj00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree. It is a very strange-looking the way it is worn. I've had this since the early nineties in my dansco album and finally took it out today to look at it under a microscope closely for the first time.

I too was kind of baffled at the wear pattern across the coin. When I bought it from Ramapo in the 90s, they called it BU, but you can see that it's definitely not. IIRC, I challenged them on it, but for $14, decided to eat it and keep it. BTW, it weighs exactly 23.76 g, so I don't think it is fake.

EDIT: 23.786g. My bad on the typo
Edited by andywoj00
05/26/2016 12:04 pm
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fenton's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2016  9:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very possible the obverse was Struck Through Grease
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Imthealphaomega's Avatar
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3210 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2016  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Imthealphaomega to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it's a fake. Look at the expression of the Eagles face and the wear is uneven and just looks plain wrong.....looks like a cheap Chinese knockoff.
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 Posted 05/25/2016  10:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gargriff49 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the eagle must have Talonitis. Them sure some BIG toes.
Edited by gargriff49
05/25/2016 10:42 pm
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fenton's Avatar
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 Posted 05/25/2016  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Details all look right - the coin seems genuine something just went horribly wrong with the strike. Not uncommon for the 1921-S it is one of the worst struck Morgans overall; lots of ugly examples out there. Very unlikely to be a counterfeit since weight is correct and this is not a particularly rare coin in the apparent grade.
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
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6370 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2016  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How does the thickness compare to that of a genuine coin?
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Lucky Cuss's Avatar
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4883 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2016  11:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
BTW, it weighs exactly 23.76 g, so I don't think it is fake.


Unless that's a typo, that's almost 3 whole grams light, which cannot be accounted for by the modest apparent wear. On that basis alone I'd say counterfeit, even though why anybody'd be reproducing this particular issue is beyond me.


Quote:
Look at the expression of the Eagles face


I also noticed that, but I wasn't in "fake detction" mode for the likes of a 1921-S. Now I think I was dismissing an obvious cue.
Colligo ergo sum
Valued Member
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441 Posts
 Posted 05/26/2016  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andywoj00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More info as compared to an authentic 1921D. I have no other 1921S Morgans to compare with:

1921D:
Diameter - 38.1mm
Weight - 26.704g
Measurements at reed: 12 position 2.78mm, 3 position 2.74mm, 6 position 2.74mm, 9 position 2.87mm

1921S:
Diameter - 38.08mm
Weight - 26.786g
Measurements at reed: 12position 2.74mm, 3 position 2.72mm, 6 position 2.67mm, 9 position 2.70mm

Pic of 21D eagle head:

Please-Grade-This-1921-S-Morgan

21S eagle head

Please-Grade-This-1921-S-Morgan

21D mint mark

Please-Grade-This-1921-S-Morgan

21S mint mark

Please-Grade-This-1921-S-Morgan
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