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Anyone Have A List Of Illegal Currency In The USA?

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Harmonica's Avatar
Canada
1118 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2016  12:23 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Harmonica to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I tried Googling it but I just keep getting articles on money burning. I am selling a lot of stuff to a Maineiac and was wondering what he can't bring back to the states? I am asking because I recently picked up some North Korean stuff. I'll still sell it to him but I want to let him know before the transaction, let him decide.

Thank you in advance!
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Finn235's Avatar
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2016  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure I understand the question?

As far as currency illegal to own in the US:

1) Any $100,000 bill
2) Any recalled coinage (1933 gold)
3) Any non-released pattern coinage (Aluminum cent, 1964 Peace dollar, etc)
4) Counterfeits that do not have "COPY" stamped on them, or are reasonably "novelty" sized.
This technically includes Henning nickels, but those have historically been tolerated.

As far as "bad country" coins:

- Nazi is OK
- Communist is OK (including North Korea)
-Ancient coins are OK
- Embargoed countries cannot be supported via direct numismatic sales, but the coins are legal to own.
- Terrorist coins (ISIS dirhams) are iffy. Those might actually be illegal, per the anti-funding clauses of the PATRIOT Act.
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Harmonica's Avatar
Canada
1118 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2016  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Harmonica to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you finn, I meant bad countries I suppose.
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Andrew99's Avatar
United States
1533 Posts
 Posted 06/17/2016  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Finn, thats an interesting perspective on the anti-funding clause of the Patriot Act. Interpreting that way, any numismatic items from any unfriendly nation could find you in violation. Has anyone ever gotten prosecuted using this broad interpretation of the anti-funding clause?
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United States
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 Posted 06/21/2016  9:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jack jeckel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Finn, thats an interesting perspective on the anti-funding clause of the Patriot Act


Never heard of that one but hopefully ISIS does not issue silver rounds trying to skirt the law and call them bullion sales.

But it would not surprise me if it was allowed as long as our government could tax it.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 06/22/2016  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
4) Counterfeits that do not have "COPY" stamped on them, or are reasonably "novelty" sized.
This technically includes Henning nickels, but those have historically been tolerated.

The COPY law only applies to items made since 1973 so it does not apply to the Henning counterfeits


Quote:
-Ancient coins are OK

This can be iffy. There are several countries whose coins before a certain date can't be imported due to "cultural heritage" laws. These coins can be confiscated and repatriated. Italy, Spain, and Turkey keep trying to get their issues on the restricted list which would pretty much include all ancient roman coins.

These relate to coins struck or used in the area that is modern Bulgaria

a. Pre-monetary media of exchange including "arrow money," bells, and bracelets. Approximate date: 13th century B.C. through 6th century B.C.

b. Thracian and Hellenistic coins struck in gold, silver, and bronze by city-states and kingdoms that operated in the territory of the modern Bulgarian state. This designation includes official coinages of Greek-using city-states and kingdoms, Sycthian and Celtic coinage, and local imitations of official issues. Also included are Greek coins from nearby regions that are found in Bulgaria. Approximate date: 6th century BC through the 1st century B.C.

c. Roman provincial coins - Locally produced coins usually struck in bronze or copper at mints in the territory of the modern state of Bulgaria. May also be silver, silver plate, or gold. Approximate date: 1st century BC through the 4th century A.D.

d. Coinage of the First and Second Bulgarian Empires and Byzantine Empire - Struck in gold, silver, and bronze by Bulgarian and Byzantine emperors at mints within the modern state of Bulgaria. Approximate date: 4th century A.D. through A.D. 1396.

e. Ottoman coins - Struck at mints within the modern state of Bulgaria. Approximate date: A.D. 1396 through A.D. 1750.

There are restrictions on "italian type coins"

The January 19, 2011 Federal Register contains a notice that restrictions are extended to certain coins of Italian type:

View the Government Record.

The categories of coins subject to the restrictions are as follows:

F. Coins of Italian Types—A type catalogue of listed currency and coins can be found in N.K. Rutter et al. (eds.), Historia Numorum: Italy (London, 2001). Others appear in G.F. Hill Coins of Ancient Sicily (Westminster, 1903).

1. Lumps of bronze (Aes Rude)— Irregular lumps of bronze used as an early medium of exchange in Italy from the 9th century B.C.

2. Bronze bars (Ramo Secco and Aes Signatum)—Cast bronze bars (whole or cut) used as a media of exchange in central Italy and Etruria from the 5th century B.C.

3. Cast coins (Aes Grave)—Cast bronze coins of Rome, Etruscan, and Italian cities from the 4th century B.C.

4. Struck coins—Struck coins of the Roman Republic and Etruscan cities produced in gold, silver, and bronze from the 3rd century B.C. to c. 211 B.C., including the ''Romano-Campanian'' coinage.

5. Struck colonial coinage—Struck bronze coins of Roman republican and early imperial colonies and municipia in Italy, Sicily, and Sardinia from the 3rd century B.C. to c. A.D. 37.

6. Coins of the Greek cities—Coins of the Greek cities in the southern Italian peninsula and in Sicily (Magna Graecia), cast or struck in gold, silver, and bronze, from the late 6th century B.C. to c. 200 B.C.

Source: Federal Register: January 19, 2011 (Volume 76, Number 12)
[Rules and Regulations] Pages 3012-3013.

The above restricted coins of Italian types can only be imported into the United States with an export certificate issued by the Republic of Italy or "satisfactory evidence" demonstrating that the coins were exported from or were outside of Italy at least 10 years prior to importation into the US or that the Coins were exported from or were outside of Italy before January 19, 2011. What constitutes "satisfactory evidence" is ultimately left to the discretion of Customs, but usually takes the form of a declaration by the importer and a statement by the consigner.



Source: Convention on Cultural Property Implementation Act ("CPIA") § 307, 19 U.S.C. § 2606.


Under an agreement with China signed by Bush in Jan 2009 Chinese coins from before 907 AD can not be imported without a license from the Chinese government.

Coins of Cyprus

Coins of Cypriot Types
The restriction on Cypriot coins apparently includes all ancient coins from Cyprus. Coins of Cypriot types must have been exported from Cyprus prior to July 13, 2007 or import into the United States is prohibited (with exceptions for temporary museum exhibits).
Coins of Cypriot types made of gold, silver, and bronze including but not limited to:

1. Issues of the ancient kingdoms of Amathus, Kition, Kourion, Idalion, Lapethos, Marion, Paphos, Soli, and Salamis dating from the end of the 6th century B.C. to 332 B.C.

2. Issues of the Hellenistic period, such as those of Paphos, Salamis, and Kition from 332 B.C. to c. 30 B.C.

3. Provincial and local issues of the Roman period from c. 30 B.C. to 235 A.D. Often these have a bust or head on one side and the image of a temple (the Temple of Aphrodite at Palaipaphos) or statue (statue of Zeus Salaminios) on the other.
Edited by Conder101
06/22/2016 3:32 pm
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
189053 Posts
 Posted 06/22/2016  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So, just to be safe, we should only be collecting recognizable pocket change.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16842 Posts
 Posted 06/22/2016  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to be clear, there are things which are "illegal to own in the US", and things which are "illegal to import into the US", and the two lists are not identical.

For example, it's perfectly legal to own ancient Cypriot coins and it's therefore equally legal to buy and sell them within the United States. However, it is not legal (technically, a breach of Customs regulations) to import them.

For North Korean items, it is illegal (again, against Customs regulations) to import them directly from North Korea, or if the transaction directly supports the North Korean government or officials. If neither you nor your friend are members of the Worker's Party of Korea, you should be in the clear.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Steele's Avatar
United States
1119 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2016  01:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Steele to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
good info but should this be in the modern US coins forum?
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16842 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2016  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good point. Moved to Main.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Finn235's Avatar
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2016  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for elaborating on that, Sap. I honestly had no idea that US customs had so many agreements with foreign nations regarding "cultural heritage" coins.

I wonder how well enforced those are? I have bought maybe two dozen packages of ancient coins from countries with reasonably strict export laws, very seldom with any issues (such issues were with "cheap package ripped and coin was lost" rather than "coin seized by customs"). Some of these clearly were not legally exported, as evidenced by coins hidden in CD cases, or wrapped in aluminum foil and hidden in a brochure about a time share.

Once the coin is in my mailbox, it is mine and cannot be confiscated even if customs changes their mind on clearing it.

I think that is the distinction--I cannot declare "Base!" on a 1933 double eagle and keep it because I was able to purchase it under the radar.

The Henning nickels are an interesting situation, since I don't think there is any age exemptions on *counterfeit* money, which is what they are. A $20 nickel is hardly worth the effort to confiscate, but I guarantee that the police will come a-knockin' if anyone ever finds the stash that he dumped in the river near his house.
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Steele's Avatar
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1119 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2016  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Steele to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wonder how well enforced those are?

I am going to guess that customs officer knowledge, amount of coins and just plain chance has a big influence on things. If customs can't even stop large shipments of drugs into the country there is a good chance that they aren't stopping one or ten coin shipments coming from overseas. I also would bet that a shipment of say 1,000+ coins would, generate much more scrutiny than an ebay purchase of a couple random coins.

Quote:
Once the coin is in my mailbox, it is mine and cannot be confiscated even if customs changes their mind on clearing it.

The government can and will seize the coin and return it to whoever they believe should own it if they want to. Just like they did with the Spanish shipwreck recovered
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Parklane64's Avatar
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2668 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2016  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Parklane64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Any amount of cash over $10,000 on your person.

You do not have the freedom to carry your money.
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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2016  4:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can carry any amount of money you want. You just have to declare it if it exceed $10,000. You declare it they won't take it away from you, but if you don't and they find it they will.


Quote:
The Henning nickels are an interesting situation, since I don't think there is any age exemptions on *counterfeit* money, which is what they are.

No there is no age limit, the counterfeiting laws still apply. However the simple possession of counterfeit coins is not illegal. (Refusing to surrender a counterfeit if requested by authorized Treasury personnel though IS illegal.) Selling a counterfeit AS a counterfeit is also legal (but legal title to a counterfeit can not be conveyed.). The HPA laws that require COPY on replicas etc only applies to pieces produced after 1973
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YNumismetals Collector's Avatar
United States
354 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2016  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add YNumismetals Collector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WOW! That is a big list of things that ya cant keep!
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Parklane64's Avatar
United States
2668 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2016  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Parklane64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gosh, Conder101, thanks for correcting me. To whom should one self declare? Do you have to fill out a form? Does it require a social security number or picture identification? Is there a waiting period before you are allowed to carry around your own money? Please define 'they'.

Forfeiture laws are the most evil thing law enforcement has done since Jim Crow laws. Thank you for being blindly accepting and blase'.


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