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1921-D Morgan With Die Cracks: Additional Photos

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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6383 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2008  12:30 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello VAM fans,
Here is an AU Morgan 1921-D coin that I bought as a generic silver dollar. I noticed it has an extensive collection of cracks around the date. Since many of the VAM descriptions for this date on VAMWorld involve various die cracks, I wonder if this particular coin matches up with a VAM number. Do any of our VAM experts have an opinion?

Thanks!

1921-D-Morgan-With-Die-Cracks:--Additional-Photos
1921-D-Morgan-With-Die-Cracks:--Additional-Photos
1921-D-Morgan-With-Die-Cracks:--Additional-Photos
Edited by Jaobler
02/27/2008 10:49 am
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amac44's Avatar
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 Posted 02/25/2008  07:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amac44 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Did you buy that on ebay?
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MorgansRmine's Avatar
United States
1219 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2008  07:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MorgansRmine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These 1921 have exploded with new Vams. Even LeRoy is going to stop takeing them until he gets his research straightened out. Even if the cracks matched a certian VAM, there are so many sub varities it would be hard to tell with cracks alone.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2008  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Have a close look around ONE on the reverse, Jaobler. I like this one for possibly VAM-1AU or 1AA2. Both have characteristic straight die scratches near the NE of ONE, each in a different place. The 1AA2 has a break on the lower point of the third left starIf attributed, it would be the 4th VAM-1AU known.

On the other hand, it could also be just another crushed 1921-D die.

http://www.vamworld.com/1921-D+VAM-1AU

http://www.vamworld.com/1921-D+VAM-1AA2
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Jaobler's Avatar
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 Posted 02/26/2008  01:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi SuperDave,

Here are shots of ONE on the reverse, AME on the reverse (prominent crack connecting M and E and extending over A), and stars 1-4 to the left of the date (more cracks, and star #3 looks distorted). Whaddaya think?

Amac, this was part of a P-D-S set of 1921 Morgans I won on ebay a couple years ago. The 1921-S was a cleaned VF; the P and D coins are fairly original AUs. My total cost for the three was about $36 as I recall.


1921-D-Morgan-With-Die-Cracks:--Additional-Photos

1921-D-Morgan-With-Die-Cracks:--Additional-Photos

1921-D-Morgan-With-Die-Cracks:--Additional-Photos
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 02/27/2008  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I gotta think on this one, Jaobler. The 3d star is almost identical to the die break on the 1AA2, but the gouge in ONE isn't there and other die cracks don't match. I remember seeing that break somewhere else, though. Let me go through my photo archives and see if I can't jog my memory.
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 Posted 02/27/2008  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ocsjr2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SuperDave; This should be some kind of an AME reverse but the low crack coming off the A doesn't fit with any of the known ones (which come off the top part of the A). The cracks on these '21-Ds must follow exactly. Rob Joyce might be able to help , it's either a new one or about to be!
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j_h_s's Avatar
United States
1934 Posts
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NGiles's Avatar
United States
527 Posts
 Posted 02/29/2008  01:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NGiles to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good luck Jaobler. I have been trying to indetify some 1921 D's for a while now and I gave up. Too many varieties, it was giving me a headache.
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NGiles's Avatar
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527 Posts
 Posted 02/29/2008  02:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NGiles to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Try this it has a lot of similarities. Your's might be an earlier state.

http://www.vamworld.com/1921-D+VAM-1P
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Jaobler's Avatar
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6383 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On some of these VAM threads there are references to "sending it in" when the VAM variety is not clearly identified. Do the VAM guys (Van Allen and Mallis) offer some kind of attribution service for Morgan dollars? If so, then I assume that if a submitted coin turns out to be something new, they will assign a new VAM number. Is that a correct assumption?

If I have a mystery coin (like this 1921-D) can I (or should I?) mail it off to someone so it can be positively attributed? Is there a required fee? Could I count on the coin being returned safely?

This is just one more VAM-related issue that puzzles me!
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Try this it has a lot of similarities. Your's might be an earlier state.

http://www.vamworld.com/1921-D+VAM-1P



That's a good shot, NGiles; it was the one I was trying to think of earlier. Here's a detail shot of one which passed thru my collection:

1921-D-Morgan-With-Die-Cracks:--Additional-Photos

I don't think it is a match; some of the cracks on Jaobler's coin aren't in a position to develop into the ones on mine, and vice versa. The old JOH-8 (now VAM-1CX) mentions a die break on the 2; it might be of interest but I've never seen one.

I am hardly the final authority on 1921's. There are a couple of gentlemen who might be considered in that class, and whom I'm comfortable emailing. I will drop them messages with a link to this thread, and see if I might obtain an opinion.

This coin is most likely an early die state of a known VAM, or possibly a known VAM with undescribed die breaks. All the same, the break on the star and the date are points of interest, and it's worth finding out.
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NGiles's Avatar
United States
527 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  11:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NGiles to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SuperDave,

I wish I had half the coins that have gone through your collection.I'm thinking about making a collection of the pictures of your collection. That may be the closest I get to having some of them.

I need to get some advice from you on how you organize all of your pictures and information. You always seem to be able to find what you need at any given moment. Organization Isn't my strong point, but in this hobby it needs to be. I'll start a new topic on that sometime.
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InfiniteInterest's Avatar
United States
673 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add InfiniteInterest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes Joabler, I believe they will attribute your coins , and you would get credit for any discovery coins for a new VAM. I would post it in their forum , with those pics I am sure they could tell you what have. The Director of Attribution services at ANACS is a big part of that site apparently. They know their stuff for sure .
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NGiles's Avatar
United States
527 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2008  10:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NGiles to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Joabler,

You can send your coin to Leroy, but He has asked people to hold off on 1921's for awhile. He is getting overwhelmed with them, it is an especially difficult year.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 03/06/2008  3:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NGiles, ultimately I'm going to put as much of my pictures as possible on my website, in full resolution. However, before I can do that I have to write the webpage, which I'm forever not finding time to do.

I organize all my pics using the Windows file folder system. There's a master folder called Coins, and subfolders for auctions and each denomination. Further subfolder breakdowns take me to Morgans, and then 1921's, and 1921-D's, and folders for each individual coin that's passed through my collection. Those last folders include the name of the VAM in the folder name, so I can tell at a glance what's what. If you're comfortable in Windows Explorer and the Windows filesystem, it's easy as pie and strictly organized.

If you're not comfortable navigating the Windows filesystem, I could probably put together a quick and dirty tutorial that would get whoever read it up to speed pretty quickly. I used to earn my living doing just that, as an instructor at an adult technical school.

Every single piece of collecting software you might purchase does exactly the same thing. You're just paying for the convenience of a graphical interface, and easier access to related information about your coin.
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