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Replies: 11 / Views: 1,071 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3656 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3516 Posts |
Not sure if this is MD or hub doubling. I'm leaning towards MD. Let's see what coop says.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3656 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
It's MD. There are two main causes of MD. One is when the die die accidently strikes the coin more than once. The other is wear on the die. Hub Doubled is on the die before any wear and generally manifests itself crisp and rounded like the normal devices. Of course there are nine different forms of Doubled Dies, but first things first.
Edited by CoinMasters 06/30/2016 11:10 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
This is a Doubled Die.  When it's MD Strike Doubling the die hits the coin more than once, flattening part of the devices that were just imparted on the coin from the first strike. This leaves the first strike devices reduced in size and the "doubled" portion is flat and shelf-like. When it's MD Die Deterioration, the edges of the recessed devices on the die are worn and leave a sloppier "doubling".
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3656 Posts |
That is an awesome DDR, is it the 1983?  Thanks for posting it for me - I now have it saved to my Reference pics.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3516 Posts |
Wow, nice one coinmasters!! 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
Quote:I don't think it is the HUB doubling but I still get mixed up on MD and Die Deterioration Doubling. MD by many accounts originally stood for Machine Doubling, as it is actually not doubling, there is movement in Numismadialand to change it to Machine Damage,a more appropriate nomenclature,(with the same initials). If I'm not mistaken, this movement was started by our very own world renown, resident expert, Mr. Richard S. Cooper (Coop). They do often look similar, don't be distracted by my picture (believe me, I know it's hard to look away), but read what I said in my posts on this thread. Three things I didn't say was with Die Deterioration, the surrounding fields are often distorted because the metal on the planchet "flowed" due to displacement by wear on the die. Another thing to look for is direction - Die Deterioration usually flows toward the rim. Double Strikes usually is all in the same direction regardless of the rim. That being said, forms of MD are essentially worthless, other than helping you on your way to recognizing Doubled Dies. By the way, another movement is under way to change the old term PMD (Post Mint Damage) to PSD (Post Strike Damage) the reason being many coins are damaged before leaving the Mint. I believe this movement is attributed to Coop as well. Sorry to ramble on so much, I guess I had a few minutes to burn.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3656 Posts |
Thanks so much, I really appreciate your time. Not that it should really matter in the end but, being able to recognize which is which is a goal of mine (just like you all can tell the difference). My thought on this one was that the front was Die Deterioration because like you mentioned the devices are sloppy, but on the reverse I thought that was more towards MD ( Machine Doubling). And that 1983 of yours is amazing, I actually put it up as my desktop background today. What a fantastic DDR to have.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
A good goal to have CC. I don't always get them right myself. I do usually know if it is MD, because MD can be Double Strike or Die Deterioration. I guess I have pretty much settled for distinguishing Doubled Dies from MD. That's very cool you made the 83 your desktop. Glad you like it. It's easy to recognize what it is, as are most varieties and errors. You can be uncertain with many coins, but when you look at the real-deal, the uncertainty evaporates.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3656 Posts |
Yes, I agree the more I see of the real deal the better I will learn. I have only found a couple DDO's and they were on the shield cents and unless you get one of the big ones the doubling is basically minor. A 2011P # 5 from what I remember and a 2015P LC - which I am sending into Wexler for a new listing. I'll keep plugging along - thanks again for all your time and input - it is greatly appreciated.
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Replies: 11 / Views: 1,071 |
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