Updated: 1884 3CN - It Appears That This Is For Real...

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Author	Replies: 19 / Views: 3,134	Page: of 2
Prethen Pillar of the Community United States 3234 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 10:51 am NOT a business strike - intended as Proof (see post below; dated 4/25/2008) There are very few "experts" in the 3CN field. I've had three people who I highly respect look at many images of the coin (the edge images, which were not the greatest are not below) and they all either tentatively or firmly conclude....Business Strike!. I must also concur with this conclusion. The person in the "tentative court" is the person who I intend to send the coin to for a secondary look and then (hopefully!) submission to PCGS. This is one (rare) case where I would heavily lean towards getting it in reputable plastic due to its rarity and future saleability. Assuming that all is good...this is one very rare piece. Plus, there's a 5-degree reverse clockwise rotation to boot. Alan Gifford's book notes that this is from a Proof-only die but the date type doesn't seem to match. I've already heard from a couple of sources that dispute Gifford's findings. The first pictures are from a scanner so the coin will be somewhat darker. The pictures below that make the coin a bit brighter than in hand. Edited by Prethen 04/25/2008 2:20 pm Report this Post to the Staff

amac44 Member United States 3242 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 11:13 am Sure it looks real and a nice grade to! Report this Post to the Staff
1sikevo Pillar of the Community United States 1130 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 11:34 am I know little about the series but the denticles seem to indicate a business strike. They are not sharply cut like most proofs. Report this Post to the Staff
MarkJ Valued Member United States 130 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 12:50 pm That is a beauty! Report this Post to the Staff
wbryan09 New Member United States 32 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 12:58 pm It's a beautiful looking 3CN without doubt! But I agree on the sharpness of detail, I vote that it's a business strike. Report this Post to the Staff
gussyboy1 Valued Member United States 174 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 2:03 pm ThaT is quite a BEAUTY! Best of Luck with it and please keep us informed on it. Gussyboy1 Report this Post to the Staff
jbakic Valued Member United States 251 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 2:47 pm Congratulations Prethen. That is one fine score. Report this Post to the Staff
Vaslin Pillar of the Community United States 914 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 3:54 pm Congrats Prethen! :D Report this Post to the Staff
gbchaosmaster Valued Member United States 328 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 5:14 pm Amazing coin. with 1sikevo about the denticles, they're too weak to be proof. Report this Post to the Staff
Prethen Pillar of the Community United States 3234 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 5:20 pm FYI...as I learned myself recently, the denticles can NOT be used to determine if it's a Proof or not. Believe it or not, the Mint evidently pressed these things out with a single strike sometimes and sometimes without enough pressure to raise all the details...BUT they used Proof dies and intended those pieces as Proofs. Yeah, I know...what the heck! That's why it can be difficult to near impossible to tell the type of strike on these things. If it circulated too much, unless there's a crystal clear diagnostic, forget about it. Report this Post to the Staff
okie-colin Pillar of the Community United States 1083 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 5:42 pm Prethen, another great acquisition for the undisputed king of the Three Cent Nickel collectors. I congratulate and salute you sir! Report this Post to the Staff
of-grampa Valued Member United States 302 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 6:34 pm Just an absolutely beautiful coin. I'd get it into plastic also Report this Post to the Staff
m9frank Pillar of the Community United States 628 Posts	Posted 02/26/2008 7:25 pm Way to go Prethen! Sounds like your specialized knowledge paid off big! Congratulations. When I need a 3CN expert I know who to contact. Report this Post to the Staff
Gary Valued Member United States 281 Posts	Posted 02/28/2008 7:23 pm Bruce, I have to agree that your coin was probably prepared as a business strike. I have compared most of my 3¢'s edges an can see no differences between some business strikes and proofs. If proof dies were used for business strikes then I would assume the same collar in the press would also be used. If that is the case then it would be virtually impossible to distinguish one from the other with the exception of mirrors on the coin and planchet preperation. If the proof dies were not maintained or repolished during striking the mirrors would disappear and one could consider it a business strike or could you. A person could surmise that without specific die markers on a coin die that it could be either a proof or business strike. Certain proof dies had die markers that make verification easy and others don't. Planchet preperation would have a lot more to do with attribution of a proof vs business strike than the die would if some proof dies were used to also strike business strikes. I know that proof planchets were specially prepared and business strike planchets were normally prepared. If proof dies were used for all business strikes for a particular year, then wouldn't they all be considered proofs and none as business strikes. Terminology and interpretation is all there is left. Like I told you before, Some known facts raise a lot more questions than answers. Gary Report this Post to the Staff
Prethen Pillar of the Community United States 3234 Posts	Posted 04/25/2008 2:18 pm Unfortunately, John Dannreuther has taken some time to investigate this coin (in hand) and has determined that it's a mid-state Proof die (with a known rotation). This is a serious bummer. I've been in touch with the seller prior to his final analysis and they're okay with and aware that it will be coming back to them. I can't wait to get that final part over with and hopefully I won't hit any glitches for the return. I even told John, this will likely be the last time I attempt to buy a raw 1884-1885 3CN. I can't imagine any decent AU raw ones exist any more that aren't already in strong hands. I have serious doubts I'll ever be able to own/afford either of those two coins. Report this Post to the Staff
1sikevo Pillar of the Community United States 1130 Posts	Posted 04/25/2008 2:48 pm Sorry to hear that Bruce. Another reason I will only buy key/rare coins certified. Report this Post to the Staff
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