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 Replies: 16 / Views: 4,557 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1187 Posts |
The other day while browsing the web I saw an article that claimed a group was using 3D printing to create some rare animal tusk. They claimed it had the same make up as a real horn and it was helping reduce the killings of these animals. I have no idea if it was a hoax or not but it got me thinking.
As 3D printing technology evolves, will they someday be able to accurately print coins? Could someone start printing off 1916-d dimes and kill the value of authentic coins? This may sound silly but as technology evolves it may be possible in the future. Do you think 3D printing will have an effect on the hobby?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2843 Posts |
I don't think that 3d printing is the biggest issue.
I think that if people really wanted to make compelling fakes, they could use laser precision to replicate dies using existing coins. They could then create "real" rare coins by actually stamping them on actual coin planchets.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
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They could then create "real" rare coins by actually stamping them on actual coin planchets. Daniel Carr is doing exactly that at the moment  |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
Laser optic profiling to copy details of rare coins then using this model to cut new dies is not new.
This technique is capable of producing highly deceiving fakes.
Nevertheless examination with a 10X+ loupe will still give the experienced professional all of the information he needs to identify fake coins by comparison with genuine.
Almost impossible to spot this sort of high quality fake from pictures on your computer screen. Details can be quite sharp and free from mushiness (the dies are cleaned up manually after computer controlled spark erosion cutting), but nevertheless,
There are many tiny variations from the original coin, from which the die was prepared.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2843 Posts |
My point exactly.
I don't think that 3D printing will add any improvement to the the ability of Daniel Carr and the likes.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts |
as to your first comment about the tusks, replicating them would not solve the issue of poaching, because the market for these is not in having a tusk on your fireplace mantel. the market is in the medicinal usage of the horns in Asia, they wont be buying fake ones.
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Valued Member
United States
403 Posts |
I saw a documentary describing the tusk thing. 3D printing was used to make a pair of fake tusks with tracking devices embedded. Good enough to fool poachers in the field, these were adeptly introduced into the supply chain to track the movement of the tusks by satellite. The signals eventually ended (they were probably discovered), but the authorities learned much about contraband routes and movements.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5205 Posts |
Edited by jack jeckel
07/22/2016 11:15 pm
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Valued Member
United States
403 Posts |
I agree there are easier ways to create a forgery, but there will come a time when some form of 3D printing will be able to replicate almost any polymeric, ceramic or metallic object, including coins. Also known as additive manufacturing, the ability to precisely manipulate matter in smaller and smaller amounts, higher resolution, and make functional materials that cannot be made by conventional methods is recognized to be part of the next manufacturing revolution. The stakes are high, and many countries are working hard to be at the forefront. The goal is to have control over every important characteristic of a material: functionality, composition, hardness, grain size/orientation, surface texture, color, strength, etc. There have been many promises and developments are still low on the hype curve, but eventually it will happen.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2233 Posts |
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When did the "Omega Man" fake St. Gaudens double eagles first come out? If I recall correctly his fakes were made in the 1970s and 1980s. |
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Pillar of the Community
Norway
1358 Posts |
I don't think 3D printing will have any effect on this hobby. We can usually see it when a coin hasn't been struck, but if other methods have been used. In addition, 3D printing for metals is still a relatively slow and expensive process. There are still different ways which are quicker and more accurate (and costing less). I think the biggest challenge will be when the 'Chinese' step up their game and make actual replicas of coins of existing coins instead of the semi-fantasy ones we see today. I mean, how difficult can it be to just include the denomination on the fake Panda, right? The same goes for slabbing. It's quite unbelievable to me that they generally just deliver half work which is easily recognizable as fake. Or (insert aluminum hat here) do they do it on purpose so that we think they're still no further than that and so we don't see the actual fakes which resemble the originals quite closely and now go unnoticed? Just a question: has anyone actually seen or heard about 3D printing with gold and silver? I haven't as of today, but it might be that I missed out there. EDIT Quote:
The other day while browsing the web I saw an article that claimed a group was using 3D printing to create some rare animal tusk. I must say that this sounds implausible to me. 3D printing isn't alchemy. You can't change some plastic ink into high quality and rare tusk, like you can't change lead into gold. Edited by UltraRant
07/23/2016 02:44 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
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I don't think 3D printing will have any effect on this hobby. We can usually see it when a coin hasn't been struck, I would think that the 3d printing would be used to create the Die's , These would be then used to strike the "coins" . |
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Valued Member
United States
403 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Not necessary. China can produce their fakes without a 3D printer now.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
711 Posts |
Huge extruder guy here (3D printers are just extruder heads attached to a CNC basically). Agree that 3D printing will have next to zero impact on the hobby. 3D printing is never cost competitive for any scale of parts. There are also structural issues in the parts made from a 3D printer that are different in a well designed injection molded part. 3D printing is ideal for custom parts where there will never be enough scale to justify tooling up properly and reducing manufacturing costs. Now 3D printing in metal is cool for custom parts. You can definitely do gold and silver parts, you can do it now and job out the production even so you don't have to buy / build the printer. http://www.shapeways.com/I have never had any issues with the parts Shapeways has made for me other than the pricing. Never bought any precious metals parts off them either though. The 3D scanners are likely used in die production by the fakers. Lots of tool and die makers out there looking to utilize machine capacity somehow someway to keep the lights on. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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as to your first comment about the tusks, replicating them would not solve the issue of poaching, because the market for these is not in having a tusk on your fireplace mantel. the market is in the medicinal usage of the horns in Asia, they wont be buying fake ones. The rhino horn is mainly used in two ways, Ground to a powder for medicinal purposes (Asia), or used for the handles of ceremonial daggers (Middle East). Now the horn is little more than the same protein that makes up your hair and fingernails. Easy to produce in the lab and can be 3D printed into shape. The key is they also incorporate DNA from the Rhinos into the protein mix. Not if you test the 3D printed horn to make sure you are getting the real thing, it will show Rhino DNA. So now you can sell the Chinese counterfeit powdered rhino horn that tests as real. Quote:
If I recall correctly his fakes were made in the 1970s and 1980s. Omega's fakes were detected in the early 70's. Who's to say when they were actually made. All you can say is they were made before 1972. Quote:
I would think that the 3d printing would be used to create the Die's , These would be then used to strike the "coins" . Problem is the dies almost certainly won't have the strength to stand up to the tons of pressure need to strike the coins. One or two strikes and your die will probably be shot. Edited by Conder101
07/25/2016 10:24 am
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Replies: 16 / Views: 4,557 |
Posted 07/22/2016 4:38 pm
