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Learning To Identify Cleaned, Buffed, Adulterated Coins...

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dd27's Avatar
United States
666 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2016  4:11 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add dd27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
In my (early) effort to learn how to identify 'cleaned' (broadly speaking) coins, here is one I'm wondering about:

Learning-To-Identify-Cleaned,-Buffed,-Adulterated-Coins...

Learning-To-Identify-Cleaned,-Buffed,-Adulterated-Coins...

Although the seller is "Top Rated Plus" with 99.8% positive ratings, they sell a gazillion coins, and reviewing the neutral and negative comments reveal several complaints about cleaned coins.

Thank you for your insights!

~ Mark

P.S. Please recommend resources (in addition to the forum ;-) for learning about identification of cleaned, buffed, and otherwise adulterated coins. I ordered The Dirty Little Secrets About Cleaned Coins (2008) by J.W. Swank, but I could not find any other up-to-date books on the topic on Amazon.com.
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2016  4:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That seller is generally discouraged on coin forums. The surfaces look a little too glossy for me to be confident that it is original. Other than that, it looks perfectly fine.

My tips on detecting cleaned coins:

1. Look at as many coins as possible. Get an idea of what a coin should look like for a certain grade.
2. Study coins with hairlines. I have noticed that coins with hairlines often have a certain color and texture to them. Learn what this looks like.
3. White or light gray pre-1916 coins (with the exception of BU Morgan dollars) have likely been cleaned or dipped. White coins below AU-55 have definitely been dipped.
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dd27's Avatar
United States
666 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2016  4:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dd27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks so much! Very helpful advice. :O)
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dd27's Avatar
United States
666 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2016  4:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dd27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How about this one? Are the nearly vertical lines on the left above LIBERTY, and on the right above 1960, signs of buffing?

Learning-To-Identify-Cleaned,-Buffed,-Adulterated-Coins...
Edited by dd27
08/02/2016 4:45 pm
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ace_ftw's Avatar
Canada
1747 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2016  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ace_ftw to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DD, to me the IHC looks like there might have been cleaning way back when, there seems to be a slight halo around her feathers. The cent looks more like bag marks or some sort of flow lines of the copper. definitely not cleaned
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dd27's Avatar
United States
666 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2016  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dd27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Ace! Very helpful insights for this beginner. ;O)

The 1960-D sold for $13, including postage. If I'm not mistaken it is one of the CONECA Top 100 RPMs:

-----
According to the Lincoln Cent Resource [http://lincolncentresource.com/RPMS/1960rpm1.html]:

1960 D/D rpm 1
Fivaz Stanton Numbers: FS-01-1960D-501
Coneca: RPM - 001
Wexler: WRPM - 001
Coppercoins: 1960D - 1MM - 001

"This repunched mintmark (RPM) shows a secondary D west of the primary mintmark. This rpm is the boldest of the Lincoln cents! A must have for RPM collectors. This variety is listed in CONECA's top 100 RPM's."
-----


Pillar of the Community
United States
1202 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2016  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LibertyEagle20 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree with the others on the IHP. While it looks great in the pics, that seller has a very bad reputation so I wouldn't trust them. The Lincoln looks more original (notice the luster shine?). I still struggle telling the difference between bag marks and cleaning as well though. I try to look for that blazing luster look however for lower grade coins the luster may be gone due to honest circulation.
Rest in Peace
T-BOP's Avatar
United States
18456 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2016  7:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We had a very recent thread on GSC coins .most of their coins are high grade and cleaned . they manipulate the lighting on their photo's as to not show hardly any cleaning . My suggestion to everyone is to stay away from GSC .
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BigSilver's Avatar
United States
2843 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2016  7:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The lines on the LMC look to me like die polish lines. A close examination will tell.
Technically, you should be able to tell coin polish lines from die polish by seeing if the lines are incused or protruding.
However, that is often difficult to tell. Instead, check if the lines seem to cross through the devices and if they do see they on the devices. Also do they come right up to the devices out do they stop near them.
Die Polish Lines will often seem to run right UNDER the devices.
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2016  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those lines on the Lincoln Cent are die polish lines. Usually, if the lines are ALL pointing in the same direction, they are polish lines. If they are pointing in different directions, then they are cleaning hairlines.
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Chute72's Avatar
United States
1314 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2016  7:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
dd27, I am working on a collection that has some coins that have been attacked by the Green Monster. I can't reverse the process, but I can keep it from getting worse. Seeing a before and after may help.

Learning-To-Identify-Cleaned,-Buffed,-Adulterated-Coins...
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dd27's Avatar
United States
666 Posts
 Posted 08/04/2016  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dd27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What did you do to the coin and is it considered 'cleaned' or 'conserved'? Thanks! ~ Mark
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Chute72's Avatar
United States
1314 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2016  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The half farthing came out of a PVC flip, where it may have resided for many years.
It got a soak in acetone for about an hour.
Then a soak in a commercial product I'll refer to as brand X, followed by a rinse in acetone and another soak in VerdiCare.
Most of the green came off easily with a soft artist's brush.
The general consensus is that VerdiCare will remove the green if it is not permanent.
It is possible that the light patch on Victoria's forhead may tone more naturally with time.
Not all of my procedures are approved of, but for the more extreme actions, I never work on a valuable coin.
Conservation is when people cannot tell what you have done. Cleaning is when the work is visible and people don't like it. I just made that up.
A search on "cleaning" will give you lots of posts to review. Here is one that shows a few I have cleaned/conserved. Most of those coins cost me about a dime and came from the melt bucket.
https://goccf.com/t/244101&whichpag...rms=cleaning
With experience, I am becoming less aggressive in my approach.
Note the mottled colors on the coin where the crud has been removed. This may give you a clue when viewing coins with an uneven tone.

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dd27's Avatar
United States
666 Posts
 Posted 08/06/2016  3:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dd27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very helpful Chute72! Thank you for the detailed explanation - much appreciated.

I like your definition of 'conserved' vs. 'cleaned' - it's the most straightforward one I've seen.

~ Mark
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 08/06/2016  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cleaned coins sometimes is impossible to tell. Many individuals that sell cleaned coins have been doing so for so long they are becoming experts at this. Many professionals have been fooled by expert coin cleaners. Sometimes it is really tuff to tell. And as to sellers on ebay, you really can not tell by feedbacks or comments. My Son sells on ebay and has many friends fake feedbacks for him. If is easy for dealers to have people send in fabulous commentaries about a seller. You really can not tell by so called feedbacks. YOU just really have to get to know coins, coin cleaning, etc.
I've known many dealers that could not tell if a coin was cleaned or not so for the average person, it gets even more difficult.
On a TV show, The Big Bang Theory, recently a person said "There is no place for the truth on the internet"
Edited by just carl
08/06/2016 4:34 pm
Pillar of the Community
dd27's Avatar
United States
666 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2016  01:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dd27 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very well said Carl. I'm taking your advice to heart.
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