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I Finally Got Burned By A Fake Chinese Coin...

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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2016  1:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
It was bound to happen sooner or later. Well, it finally did. I had found and won this lot on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/26252189702...RK:MEBIDX:IT

Fortunately, it was not too much of a loss. What I paid for the lot covered the cost of the other genuine coins. This coin was the only counterfeit coin in the lot.

I-Finally-Got-Burned-By-A-Fake-Chinese-Coin...

I-Finally-Got-Burned-By-A-Fake-Chinese-Coin...

The coin in the center was what drew me to the lot. It was a scarce Zhi Zheng Tong Bao 3-cash coin (worth $100-150 in the condition seen in the pictures). But this struck me as odd since this coin was worth so much more than the rest of the coins in the lot, and especially since the seller seemed knowledgeable enough to know what was and wasn't valuable. But since it looked rather worn in the pictures, I didn't question it further and subsequently bid on it.

The coins arrived yesterday, and this coin looked to have more details than the pictures showed. There was a soft dirt covering the coin and clogging up the characters. I decided to clean it up a bit with a nylon brush (not metal) to make it a $300 coin instead of a $150 coin. As I did so, the dirt came of easily, but so did a lot of the patina, leaving raw copper. I found this very odd, so I looked closer.

Before:

I-Finally-Got-Burned-By-A-Fake-Chinese-Coin...

I-Finally-Got-Burned-By-A-Fake-Chinese-Coin...

After:

I-Finally-Got-Burned-By-A-Fake-Chinese-Coin...

I-Finally-Got-Burned-By-A-Fake-Chinese-Coin...

The larger coins of the Yuan Dynasty were known for their high-quality of casting. They typically have sharp characters that have rounded tops. When they wore a little bit, the worn areas display a distinctive plateau effect that is smooth, flat, and usually a different color. You can see what I am talking about in the genuine coin below. If you look at the Zheng character (bottom of obverse), the left side shows the roundness, while the right side is worn. This effect is very hard to replicate, so it is rarely seen on counterfeits.

I-Finally-Got-Burned-By-A-Fake-Chinese-Coin...

Here is a counterfeit owned by Scott Semans. Note the rounded look to all of the characters.

I-Finally-Got-Burned-By-A-Fake-Chinese-Coin...

My coin displayed neither the sharp roundness nor the flat plateaus. It was just bulbous and porous. If it was corroded after years in the ground, I would expect a more-permanent patina.

Then I compared my examples to genuine coins and noted several differences. The left vertical stroke of Zheng is supposed to be wedge-shaped, but it is 7-shaped on my coin. The bottom horizontal stroke of the reverse character Maw is supposed to be thick and curved, while on my coin, it is thin and straight.

Conclusion: counterfeit. Unless I am wrong in some of my observations and assumptions.

I have contacted the seller, and he seems willing to work with me. I feel he put this coin in the lot as bid bait and should be avoided in the future.
Edited by TypeCoin971793
08/05/2016 1:38 pm
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
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 Posted 08/05/2016  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
More genuine specimens in case you wanted to view more examples.

http://www.zeno.ru/showgallery.php?cat=7510
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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7066 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2016  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The details you describe would be hard to detect without the coin in hand, I would think, especially when the seller's photo was a group shot of the lot rather than a tight closeup of the single coin. Gonna list this guy on your sellers-of-counterfeits thread?
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aiglet7's Avatar
Canada
695 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2016  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aiglet7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A useful guide to the reputable sellers of medieval Chinese, Korean and Annam coins may be found at this link:-
http://Chinesecoins.lyq.dk/eBaydealers.html

Personally, I have had successful dealings for several years with Ricky Watt in Hong Kong, Tomtangmu in China and Vietnumis in Vietnam. Never a concern of any kind.
'TypeCoin' I enjoy reading your posts and respect your knowledge but I would be very wary of an ebay seller of Oriental coins with only 122 positive feedbacks.
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2016  3:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry you got burned on these coins, but it's good the the seller is going to work with you so you should get your money back.
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2016  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
A useful guide to the reputable sellers of medieval Chinese, Korean and Annam coins may be found at this link:-
http://Chinesecoins.lyq.dk/eBaydealers.html

Personally, I have had successful dealings for several years with Ricky Watt in Hong Kong, Tomtangmu in China and Vietnumis in Vietnam. Never a concern of any kind.
'TypeCoin' I enjoy reading your posts and respect your knowledge but I would be very wary of an ebay seller of Oriental coins with only 122 positive feedbacks.


I am well aware of that list of sellers. I have bought from most of them many times, as well as several on the non-eBay dealers listed on the right. However, there are other sellers that occasionally sell genuine Chinese cash, and I often buy from them as well.

This seller has many genuine coins for sale, and he gave an authenticity guarantee. I felt that some of his coins were questionable, but I gambled on this lot hoping the presence of genuine company was a good sign. Unfortunately, this gamble was a loss. That was the first time, and last time, I buy from this seller.
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2016  4:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The details you describe would be hard to detect without the coin in hand, I would think, especially when the seller's photo was a group shot of the lot rather than a tight closeup of the single coin. Gonna list this guy on your sellers-of-counterfeits thread?


Yes. I had to use a magnifying lens to observe many of the details I mentioned. There was no way the tell from the photo.

I might list this seller, specifically to warn of the expensive items.
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ErrorCoins222's Avatar
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1699 Posts
 Posted 08/05/2016  10:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ErrorCoins222 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Did you bring this up to the seller or open up a case with ebay? Until you do, I don't think you can say you've been burned. The seller may be more than willing to refund a portion or all of the sale price to compensate you - not that it would amount to much.
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